Sony Announces Blu-ray Movie Pricing

[London Geezer]

Either way, I'm not really arguing with you l-b, more along the lines of venting, but this time I will be venting with my pocketbook...that is unless a PS3 mysteriously makes its way into my home...but that is a another topic for another day, maybe you could start a poll "What would it take for a 360 owner to buy a PS3?"

Chao (the spanish version, not the ever popular Italian one)

Heh, at least you've been watching HD stuff for years!! What can i say, i'll be happy when i get anything HD on my HDTV, and that ain't happening any time soon (i guess not before Xmas for me)... Yes you could say i'm an early adopter too, as i got a HDTV before any HD material is available in here... But at least i got one with HDMI
I think Bluray/HDDVD might work better in Europe simply because of the bigger percentage in sets with HDMI than in other territories. Of that i'm happy, even though we probably will get them properly and at a decent price in 2043.
To me, and purely for financial reasons, my PS3 will serve me just right, without having to splash out on very expensive separate parts. Of course i love Playstation games, but the fact that i'll get a Bluray player thrown in for chips is very very nice, and i'm sure it will be good enough to make my HDTV shine for a long time - or until it breaks.

 

[expletive]

Well if you bought your HDTV 3 or 4 years ago, you most likely got component or you got one of the new sets that had this new fangled digital connection called DVI. Problem is that almost all of those initial DVI connectors did not have HDCP compatibility so your choice was (even if you didnt know it at the time) either obsolete analog connection, or obsolete digital connection (and pfft on the connection being digital if your TV was a CRT-based unit becuase it was being re-converted to analog anayway).

My expectation was that i would be able to watch HD on this set indefinitely, even if it was over the 'inferior' component connection, id still eb able to use it. I never assumed that i wouldnt be able to view 1080i or 720p HD signals on this set regardless of formats coming down the road, and i'm pretty much a geek when it comes to A/V equipment.

l-b, I think there has been an answer on HDCP, at least in HD-DVD. The players will be able to output 720p/1080i over component but the digital 'flag' to permit that will be set on the discs themselves, leaving it to the studios. Not sure if BR is the same...

 

[London Geezer]

Well if you bought your HDTV 3 or 4 years ago, you most likely got component or you got one of the new sets that had this new fangled digital connection called DVI. Problem is that almost all of those initial DVI connectors did not have HDCP compatibility so your choice was (even if you didnt know it at the time) either obsolete analog connection, or obsolete digital connection (and pfft on the connection being digital if your TV was a CRT-based unit becuase it was being re-converted to analog anayway).

My expectation was that i would be able to watch HD on this set indefinitely, even if it was over the 'inferior' component connection, id still eb able to use it. I never assumed that i wouldnt be able to view 1080i or 720p HD signals on this set regardless of formats coming down the road, and i'm pretty much a geek when it comes to A/V equipment.

l-b, I think there has been an answer on HDCP, at least in HD-DVD. The players will be able to output 720p/1080i over component but the digital 'flag' to permit that will be set on the discs themselves, leaving it to the studios. Not sure if BR is the same...

Yes it is very frustrating when new technologies come out, especially for us geeks, cause we always tend to convince ourselves we actually "need" The New Thing, putting us in debt even more!
I thank god i'm as insanely nit-picky as i am and i waited a looong time to buy a HDTV. I should be safe for a while with HDMI. Though i'm sure i'll need to get a switcher as my TV only has 1 HDMI port and i'll probably need 2 eventually. And those things ain't cheap!
I think the situation with Bluray is the same as HDVD wrt HDCP, in that it's all up to the studios, with the difference that it seems Sony/MGM want to keep it there whatever happens, which means many Bluray titles will have HDCP. Obviously, as Sony/MGM titles aren't coming out on HDVD, and there's a lot of them, the percentages will be off.

 

[swanlee]

I think HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are almost certainly due to fail on a mainstream basis. Like others have said the actual number of people that will be able to use these new formats without new TV's is very very small. Not only do the TV's need a later version of HDMI but also really need 1080P to get the most out of it. Earlier version of HDMI may not work.

DVD-A and SACD both died due to cable issues like this, To get full resolution 5.1 audio out of DVD-A and SACD you needed to hook up 5 analog cables from your player to your stereo, but at the time most stereo's could not digitally process the analog 5.1 inputs leaving you with a very bare sound. Instead of letting these new formats play fully using a normal coax or optical cable they crippled users until I-link came out allowing a digital signal for these formats to be used with just 1 cable. By this time both formats were dead. I'm an audiophile and the 6 cable solution was even to much of a pian for me, I hacve several DVD-A and SACd titles but rarely listen to them because of the cable mess.

HD-DVDanmd Blu-ray have the same fate written all over them

 

[London Geezer]

I think HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are almost certainly due to fail on a mainstream basis. Like others have said the actual number of people that will be able to use these new formats without new TV's is very very small. Not only do the TV's need a later version of HDMI but also really need 1080P to get the most out of it. Earlier version of HDMI may not work.

Not really. Sure to get "the most out of it" you'll want to get 1080p panels, but even on 720p/1080i they will look way above anything available now, and it surely will work with all HDMI cables and TVs released so far. Not sure where you got the impression they "wouldn't work".
But i do agree with you they won't be mainstream any time soon, if ever. Just not for the reasons you gave, which are incorrect.

DVD-A and SACD both died due to cable issues like this, To get full resolution 5.1 audio out of DVD-A and SACD you needed to hook up 5 analog cables from your player to your stereo, but at the time most stereo's could not digitally process the analog 5.1 inputs leaving you with a very bare sound. Instead of letting these new formats play fully using a normal coax or optical cable they crippled users until I-link came out allowing a digital signal for these formats to be used with just 1 cable. By this time both formats were dead. I'm an audiophile and the 6 cable solution was even to much of a pian for me, I hacve several DVD-A and SACd titles but rarely listen to them because of the cable mess.

These days there are a lot of people with 5.1 surround sound, but anyway that's not the point. DVDA and SACD never had as much coverage and support as Bluray and HDDVD will have. With that i don't mean the new formats will succeed overnight, but surely they have a much bigger chance to do well than DVDA/SACD ever did. Also, it's not all about cables. Cost plays a big part, and marketing plays the biggest part.

HD-DVDanmd Blu-ray have the same fate written all over them

Not really, as i said they have the potential to be more successful than DVDA/SACD, just from a marketing standpoint. With DVDA/SACD there was never as much fuss over the equipment as there is now with HDTV, HD here HD there. Still, DVD will reign supreme for a looong time.

 

[expletive]

Not really. Sure to get "the most out of it" you'll want to get 1080p panels, but even on 720p/1080i they will look way above anything available now, and it surely will work with all HDMI cables and TVs released so far. Not sure where you got the impression they "wouldn't work".

I'm guessing that he means even 720p/1080i is required to 'get the most out of it' and with the new HDCP requirements likely to be on most, if not all, titles the % of sets able to enjoy these at very noticeable improvement, is very small at the moment.

If that wasnt his point, its mine.

Not willing to take sides on the adoption of either format but i do feel its a steep uphill climb, much worse than DVD, not as bad as SACD/DVD-A (because to the mass market, seeing is believing, not hearing).

 

[London Geezer]

I'm guessing that he means even 720p/1080i is required to 'get the most out of it' and with the new HDCP requirements likely to be on most, if not all, titles the % of sets able to enjoy these at very noticeable improvement, is very small at the moment.

If that wasnt his point, its mine.

Not willing to take sides on the adoption of either format but i do feel its a steep uphill climb, much worse than DVD, not as bad as SACD/DVD-A (because to the mass market, seeing is believing, not hearing).

It will take a long time, but let's not forget that Hollywood is behind the new formats, and they surely will try to get to our wallets. If it takes years, so be it. DVDA/SACD never had that much support.

 

[expletive]

It will take a long time, but let's not forget that Hollywood is behind the new formats, and they surely will try to get to our wallets. If it takes years, so be it. DVDA/SACD never had that much support.

Agreed that content is king but remember what really killed the next-gen music format, MP3. The ultimate in portability and convenience trumped the ultimate in audio quality.

I think digital distribution will serve as significant roadblock/alternative to these formats. I know threads have gone on and on about bandwidth issues etc but the providers will find a way around that. Consumers will make it easy on the providers to solve the bandwidth problem (if there even is one) because histroy has shown that the mass market is willing to trade quality for convenience.

 

[London Geezer]

Agreed that content is king but remember what really killed the next-gen music format, MP3. The ultimate in portability and convenience trumped the ultimate in audio quality.

I think digital distribution will serve as significant roadblock/alternative to these formats. I know threads have gone on and on about bandwidth issues etc but the providers will find a way around that. Consumers will make it easy on the providers to solve the bandwidth problem (if there even is one) because histroy has shown that the mass market will accept lower quality for the sake of convenience.

That's why DVD won't die, or lose first spot, for a long time.
I think that when people will be able to store lots of HD movies on hard drives, maybe that's when optical formats will die.
I never understand why people keep bringing up MP3s when talking about SACD/DVDA. If anything, MP3 ate up CD sales, not SACD/DVDA sales, which are just niche and always will be since their market is just different to the CD/MP3 market. It's like they're on a different dimension. MP3 damaged CD sales, not SACD/DVDA. What damaged SACD/DVDA is that no one gave a damn and the companies making the formats didn't convince the people that they "needed" them.

HDTV is a new standard that will become a much bigger part of our houses than "high quality audio" ever will. Even at this somewhat "initial" stage, HDTVs have made a huge impact, and eventually all TVs will be HDTVs. And people will want to play HD movies on them without much trouble and FAST, and optical formats are the easiest option.
Surely, digital distribution is the wild card, but we won't have infrastructures to support that for a while (bandwidth for fast downloads of huge files, and hard drives big enough to keep a lot of movies in there at any one time), and in the meantime HDDVD and Bluray will have a chance to make an impact.

Anyway, we've discussed this so many times...

 

[dukmahsik]

man i just feel next gen dvd format is too much too soon for the mass consumer

most people are barely getting their first DVD players these days let alone their first HDTV set

 

[London Geezer]

most people are barely getting their first DVD players these days let alone their first HDTV set

??? Where do you live? Genuine question...

 

[swanlee]

Yea most people have 5.1 but most people don't have stereo's that can digitally re encode the 5.1 analog inputs to fully utilize all the options in there stereo's. And most people didn't want to hook up 6 extra cables to get the most out of DVD-A and SACD.

I have no doubt that both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will not reach mainstream status

 

[drpepper]

??? Where do you live? Genuine question...

Here?

I am too sorry. But he just walked right into that.

 

[London Geezer]

Yea most people have 5.1 but most people don't have stereo's that can digitally re encode the 5.1 analog inputs to fully utilize all the options in there stereo's. And most people didn't want to hook up 6 extra cables to get the most out of DVD-A and SACD.

You're not looking at the big picture here... My point is that "most people" don't even know what DVDA and SACD are, let alone what they do. Even before the cables issue becomes a problem, the fact that not a lot of people (compared to the total audience) knows about their existance is vastly more important in the market penetration of both formats.
The cables issue only becomes an issue when you actually know what they are, buy them, take them home, and try to play them. The big issue here is that people never bought the bloody things.
I thought that was rather logical.

I have no doubt that both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will not reach mainstream status

We can't say that now, it's the future, maybe they will, maybe the won't. My point is that they have a much bigger chance of "getting close" to mainstream than DVDA/SACD.

 

[seismologist]

I have no doubt that both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will not reach mainstream status

Not at first but once a 1080p television is in every home do you think DVD is still going to be the dominant format?

The difference is pretty noticeable. Especially the fact that movies fill up the whole screen with no black bars.
Not like DVD Audio where you need to be in a controlled environment to know what you're listening for.

 

[GB123]

I think he has a valid point, most people will think i only bought this dvd player a couple years ago and the picture looks good to me.

The problem with HDTV is unless you see it, you don't know what your missing.

And if you don't know what your missing you will be happy with what you got.

 

[GB123]

Not at first but once a 1080p television is in every home do you think DVD is still going to be the dominant format?

The difference is pretty noticeable. Especially the fact that movies fill up the whole screen with no black bars.
Not like DVD Audio where you need to be in a controlled environment to know what you're listening for.

You will still get black bars as most films are presented in 21:9.

That makes me wonder if we will ever see 21:9 tv's.. (does it never end)

 

[London Geezer]

I think he has a valid point, most people will think i only bought this dvd player a couple years ago and the picture looks good to me.

The problem with HDTV is unless you see it, you don't know what your missing.

And if you don't know what your missing you will be happy with what you got.

That's where the marketing comes into play. Would you buy a PS3 if you didn't know it existed? Obviously no. But everyone can rest assured we will see PS3-related stuff (commercials, posters, demos, videos, internet forums, anything really) till we're sick of it.

Pople need to see to believe, and the marketing campaign will show them.
That's valid for every product and is also rather logical. It's not like HDTV is an unknown quantity. If you want to buy a new TV, you get HDTV related advertising and information in the stores and on the net to show you what it is.

 

[seismologist]

The problem with HDTV is unless you see it, you don't know what your missing.

yeah but your going to see it every time you walk into Best Buy and wonder why your movies look so grainy on your $2000 HDTV.

 

[NavNucST3]

Not at first but once a 1080p television is in every home do you think DVD is still going to be the dominant format?

The difference is pretty noticeable. Especially the fact that movies fill up the whole screen with no black bars.
Not like DVD Audio where you need to be in a controlled environment to know what you're listening for.

What is your estimated time frame for a 1080p edit: TV in every home?