Sony Announces Blu-ray Movie Pricing
- Thread starter Carl B
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GB123 said:
As i said, i only speak for LCD screens. The physical screens today and in the near future still only *display* 16M colours, or 24 bit (8 per channel). The manufacturers try (more or less successfully, depending on the company and the set) to make things better by putting some good processing inside and do things at a higher colour bit rate, which then has to go back to the LCD panel limit anyway. It works, somehow.
Kinda like having 64 or 128 bit colour on PC, when in the end the monitor can only show a lot less colour accuracy than that. It all has to do with approximations, the final image on the monitor is an approximation of the internal rendering, so if the internal rendering is more precise, the final approximation will also be more precise. Still an approximation though. Does that makes sense or am i rambling?
GB123 said:
GB123 since you readily admit yourself further down this page that HDMI 16 won't be required to display 1080p (PS3 already is slated to incorporate HDMI 12), I'm not sure where you're going here. Obviously PS3 will feature the most up-to-date HDMI standard available at time of launch, but I mean in todays world, there's always something better right around the corner you could include.
HDMI > no HDMI, so whether they get the latest and greatest or not, I think we can be reasonably pleased either way.
xbdestroya said:
Its not about PS3, if PS3/blu-ray outputs in 12/16 bit colour i want to take advantage of that so i will wait to buy a HDTV.
Im sure the majority of people wouldn't really care and probably don't know about this kind of thing, and you are right that you can never win with technology.
HDTV is still in its infancy like i said a while back so i would rather wait for things to settle down.
A lot of people have bought 1080i sets thinking this is the standard for HDTV, in terms of broadcasting it is, but the Standard for Blu-ray will be 1080p, so those people who have bought 720p or 1080i sets won't have the means to take advantage of the Blu-ray's progressive video.
Most HDTV's in people's homes are transition sets which don't meet the full spec of Blu-ray.
Like london-boy said himself he has no intention of buying a HDTV in the near future so much of this doesn't effect him, so if more people are waiting for things to settle down then this will ultimately impeed the sale of Blu-ray players and software.
As far as HDTV goes there is little in the way of a standard unlike current SDTV's
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GB123 said:
People knew they were buying transition TVs, besides people who spent all that money on HDTVs (early adopters) are the same people who will probably have no problem buying a new set if they feel like they are missing something with Bluray or whatever.
mckmas8808
Legend
london-boy said:
I'm sure of that l-b. Most people don't even know that there's a new movie media on the way to transition to.
GB123 said:
Not so- as the proverbial cat is now let out of the bag (BR and hdcp support). It is now known what is needed to take advantage of the last milestone of hdtv material (1080p material). That is what products will be made to accomodate, and that is what products people will be aiming to buy.
GB123 said:
I think this cuts both ways though. One could argue that early adopters are the only ones to have bought HDTVs thus far anyway, so whether they be few in number doesn't matter much as they will be 'upgrading' for the most part anyway down the line.
And since the majority are not early adopters, and have not yet made their HDTV purchase, when they do so the chances are that the sets they buy will be condusive to the playback of HD material.
@Mr Hanky: I think you're putting a lot of faith there in the consumer education - I frankly think though the cat is out of the bag consumers remain largely ignorant. But that's all rendered moot by the fact that I think most HDTV's sold in the future will be HDMI compliant anyway.
GB123 said:
Well... we're not discussing bluray sales now r we!? Why change the subject.
We're discussing the fact that HDMI is not very widespread, not how well Bluray is gonna sell, that's a different discussion altogether.:smile:
How did I "know" I was buying a transition set three years ago? I also think you assume too much in the respects that we "early adopters" arbitrarily throw out the old and immediately buy something new, especially somethin akin to a TV. I guess that's where your "if they feel they are missing something" comes in.london-boy said:
I guess I take slight offense to people assuming "we" didn't do our research and that whatever amount of money we spent is no big deal and we knew what we were getting into.. This isn't a computer we are talking about these are CE devices that most people do not replace for years on end, I think 10+ is the standard, or WAS the standard.
I have an idea, how about Intel donates some of that 15,000/year HDCP fee they charge and buy us all some new sets. I'm just venting now, I do want a larger set but there is not a damn thing wrong with the one I have . Also, if consumers are just supposed to know they need hdmi, why don't the CE mfrs. STOP MAKING TV'S WITHOUT THEM!!! I dont think I should be able to walk into a store today and find almost all of the sets without HDMI, and as for hdmi-->dvi well, see my prior post, its great....when it works.
EDIT: l-b, I dissagree, I think all of these issues correlate, but this goes for hd-dvd as well.
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london-boy said:
Well the post topic was regarding the pricing of Blu-ray movies, which would have an effect on sales, but then so does HDTV, and it kinda went full circle back to the me originally saying i don't think Blu-ray is going to take off as fast as Sony invision for numerous reasons.
But HDMI is an important factor of weather people will be able to use the HD capablity of Blu-ray movie, which in turn has an effect on sales.
No point buying a Blu-ray player if your TV has no HDMI input.
Mr. Hanky said:
But the movie industry will split the consumer base with that kind of attitude.
So if i don't have HDMI i only get to watch those titles that don't have hdcp??, i don't even think the average joe would know what hdcp is.
And probably wouldn't take this into consideration when buying a Blu-ray movie.
You are presuming a worst case situation w/o any basis for how it really will turn out. For all we know, it might be used so rarely as to be a non-issue. We can be aware of potential problems from this, but nobody, including you, can make assertions (at this time) that this definitely spells doom in the future. It will only become less of an issue (from whatever baseline that actually develops) as properly equipped hdtv first purchases continue and hdtv upgraders breakout from the existing non-hdcp-enabled userbase.
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HUH .. your saying splitting the market is a good thing?Mr. Hanky said:
I can say for sure its a bad thing whichever way you look at it, it may not spell doom for the blu-ray format but its not a wise choice as far as consumer information goes.
We meaning you, i don't think the average consumer would know what hdcp is.
Having read some of the above replies, one thing i can safely say is: it's outrageous that still to this day, a few months before release - and with HDDVD already released, or very close - we still don't know anything how HDCP will ultimately be handled. Totally outrageous. And that's the the bloodsucking movie studios' fault, not the manufacturers' fault (Sony or Toshiba). Wait, Sony is also a movie studio so i guess they're to blame too, together with all other movie studios.
Remember it's also HDDVD we're talking about, and HDDVD is much closer to release than Bluray. Also it applies to Broadcasts, in Europe at least, not many people mention that, which in my opinion is even worse!!
Just some questions then... When you bought your set (i assume it doesn't have HDMI or DVI-HDCP), did you buy it knowing that there would be a future format like HDDVD or Bluray that will undoubtedly work with it?
I assume you're in the US and that you bought it so you could watch HD broadcasts (lucky you!).
In the circumstances, although i can't say "it's your fault", i could safely say that you were an early adopter and that you didn't know anything about HDCP (for no fault of your own of course, it's just how technology works, which is a bitch sometimes), you probably spent a whole lot of money because you felt like you needed a HDTV even though you could have waited a bit and got it for much cheaper, and that if future standards would come up (like HDCP), you would just as well buy a new one at a much lower price than you bought your original set, if you feel like you need to watch Bluray/HDDVD movies. When you feel the need, you'll upgrade. The cost now is many times lower what it was years ago anyway.
These days you can get a HDTV with HDMI at a very very low price, so i'm sure that the people who spent thousands of dollard in brand new HDTVs years ago won't have a problem with spending a few hundred today for a new one, when they feel like they're missing something, like they felt they were missing something when they splashed out on early technology sold at ridiculously high rpices. You might not be in the same group, but you'd be the minority of a minority.
I'm not saying millions of people will do that, personally i think it will take a looong time for people to wake up and for Bluray/HDDVD to make an impact. I'm only saying that if people feel the need to upgrade, they will, since prices today are much more "normal" than they used to be. How many will actually do it is all up to fate or God or my mum. You know, mothers always know everything.
As i said, the US is a bit more in the shit than Europe. Which is quite funny actually, things have turned around it seems. In Europe, the *proper* HDTV standard (the HD-Ready label) started hand in hand with HDMI, so we'll be fine, when things start rolling obviously, which they already have. In Europe, HDCP will also be enforced on some (if not all, no one knows what percentage yet) broadcasts, depending on the studio obviously.
All "offically called" HDTVs in Europe have HDCP mostly through HDMI, and i expect things to be the same in the US, which means from now on all these HDTVs will work with Bluray/HDDVD/Broadcasts. Also, in Europe, consumers are protected, meaning if they are talked into buying a HDTV by the store staff and they get home and there's no HDMI (ot things that conform a set with the HD-Ready standard, which also includes Component, at least 720p and support for both 50 and 60Hz), they can return it and blame the staff for misleading them.
In 2006 the sets we have to day here will be discountinued and replaced with practically the same sets but with 2 HDMI ports instead of 1. 2006 won't see that many "new" sets coming out, instead prices will come down on the existing sets and new one with slightly upgraded features will come out at the same price, or slightly higher at least initially.
Good morning!
Remember it's also HDDVD we're talking about, and HDDVD is much closer to release than Bluray. Also it applies to Broadcasts, in Europe at least, not many people mention that, which in my opinion is even worse!!
NucNavST3 said:
Just some questions then...
When you bought your set (i assume it doesn't have HDMI or DVI-HDCP), did you buy it knowing that there would be a future format like HDDVD or Bluray that will undoubtedly work with it?I assume you're in the US and that you bought it so you could watch HD broadcasts (lucky you!).
In the circumstances, although i can't say "it's your fault", i could safely say that you were an early adopter and that you didn't know anything about HDCP (for no fault of your own of course, it's just how technology works, which is a bitch sometimes), you probably spent a whole lot of money because you felt like you needed a HDTV even though you could have waited a bit and got it for much cheaper, and that if future standards would come up (like HDCP), you would just as well buy a new one at a much lower price than you bought your original set, if you feel like you need to watch Bluray/HDDVD movies. When you feel the need, you'll upgrade. The cost now is many times lower what it was years ago anyway.
These days you can get a HDTV with HDMI at a very very low price, so i'm sure that the people who spent thousands of dollard in brand new HDTVs years ago won't have a problem with spending a few hundred today for a new one, when they feel like they're missing something, like they felt they were missing something when they splashed out on early technology sold at ridiculously high rpices. You might not be in the same group, but you'd be the minority of a minority.
I'm not saying millions of people will do that, personally i think it will take a looong time for people to wake up and for Bluray/HDDVD to make an impact. I'm only saying that if people feel the need to upgrade, they will, since prices today are much more "normal" than they used to be. How many will actually do it is all up to fate or God or my mum. You know, mothers always know everything.
As i said, the US is a bit more in the shit than Europe. Which is quite funny actually, things have turned around it seems. In Europe, the *proper* HDTV standard (the HD-Ready label) started hand in hand with HDMI, so we'll be fine, when things start rolling obviously, which they already have. In Europe, HDCP will also be enforced on some (if not all, no one knows what percentage yet) broadcasts, depending on the studio obviously.
All "offically called" HDTVs in Europe have HDCP mostly through HDMI, and i expect things to be the same in the US, which means from now on all these HDTVs will work with Bluray/HDDVD/Broadcasts. Also, in Europe, consumers are protected, meaning if they are talked into buying a HDTV by the store staff and they get home and there's no HDMI (ot things that conform a set with the HD-Ready standard, which also includes Component, at least 720p and support for both 50 and 60Hz), they can return it and blame the staff for misleading them.
In 2006 the sets we have to day here will be discountinued and replaced with practically the same sets but with 2 HDMI ports instead of 1. 2006 won't see that many "new" sets coming out, instead prices will come down on the existing sets and new one with slightly upgraded features will come out at the same price, or slightly higher at least initially.
Good morning!
Actually, its a little strange for me, because I bought my set expecting component to be valid for years to come. On the one hand, it is partly my fault, because I had actually gone to a class that mentioned HDMI. In my short sightedness, I didn't foresee HDMI becoming a "standard", partly because firewire already had copy protection (5C) on it and was already an industry standard in the personal computing space. This is what my D-VHS player uses to record non-flagged material from my HD DVR.
I would also like to add that I did not just buy my TV to watch broadcast, because I bought my DVHS at the same time as my tv. I guess what pisses me off is that there is nothing wrong with component, save for 1080p. HDMI is Intels way of a renewable profit source and hollywoods way of locking down their material (although I do find it hard to believe that most of HW did not want the HD component out disabled, maybe there are one or two smart people that work in that industry). So for me, I have been watching HD movies for the last three years also, so the rush to see movies in HD has been satiated, for me, for years.
So is all of this me being bitter, hell yes, but it does at least have some implication for the market of BOTH BD-ROM and HD-DVD, a quick trip over to avs would show threads and threads of this, but to answer a question mckmas asked earlier, yes I do think it will take years for either of the formats to take hold, and by that time everyone will be ready for the next group of consoles.
Either way, I'm not really arguing with you l-b, more along the lines of venting, but this time I will be venting with my pocketbook...that is unless a PS3 mysteriously makes its way into my home...but that is a another topic for another day, maybe you could start a poll "What would it take for a 360 owner to buy a PS3?"
Chao (the spanish version, not the ever popular Italian one)
I would also like to add that I did not just buy my TV to watch broadcast, because I bought my DVHS at the same time as my tv. I guess what pisses me off is that there is nothing wrong with component, save for 1080p. HDMI is Intels way of a renewable profit source and hollywoods way of locking down their material (although I do find it hard to believe that most of HW did not want the HD component out disabled, maybe there are one or two smart people that work in that industry). So for me, I have been watching HD movies for the last three years also, so the rush to see movies in HD has been satiated, for me, for years.
So is all of this me being bitter, hell yes, but it does at least have some implication for the market of BOTH BD-ROM and HD-DVD, a quick trip over to avs would show threads and threads of this, but to answer a question mckmas asked earlier, yes I do think it will take years for either of the formats to take hold, and by that time everyone will be ready for the next group of consoles.
Either way, I'm not really arguing with you l-b, more along the lines of venting, but this time I will be venting with my pocketbook...that is unless a PS3 mysteriously makes its way into my home...but that is a another topic for another day, maybe you could start a poll "What would it take for a 360 owner to buy a PS3?"
Chao (the spanish version, not the ever popular Italian one)
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