Sony advertise for software engineer for BC

[DJ12]

It is not the jist of the challenge at all.

The SPUs were inspired by the vector units in the PS2 so I don't believe "emulating" them on the PS3 is going to be that difficult a task, I wouldn't be at all surprised if this was possible using PS2 native code.

And it's just occured to me that this is a pointless point.

The CPU of the PS2 is already fully emulated and working as thats what every European 60gb has removed. The only thing left to emulate is the GS.

The hard part is already done, and has been done since release day as far as I'm concerned being a European.

 

[Carl B]

How is the EmotionEngine the 'hard' part? We've had several threads in the past discussing how the GS is the real emulation bottleneck here, and not just because of the fillrate alone.

 

[DJ12]

Why so? The GS is the weakest part in the PS2, if it wasn't for the vector units, most PS2 game would look terrible.

I'm sure there are stumbling blocks to getting it working, but it's not really an exotic part.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You need to revisit the previous discussions including Faf's insights. GS is a weird, very exotic beast. It may not be feature rich, but the way it works is different from the typical GPU. Furthermore emulating the CPU and GPU doesn't result in 100% perfect emulation. You need to emulate the whole system.

 

[Npl]

If it werent for Software emulation, the PSP/PS3 would still need a whole PS1 to be able to play PS1 Games. Surely the target is to run everything in software - if possible.
I highly doubt we will see a compatible and fast software-emu for PS2 Games until Sonys next iteration. But I can see some popular games beeing patched to be able to run on a partial emulator, maybe even with improved graphics. I wonder how Jak II would look in 720p

 

[tuna]

Maybe this position is for emulating the PSP in the forthcoming PSP2? Not everything revolves around PS2 compability...

 

[Blackraven]

I know this is a stupid layman's question but:

If the PS3 is advanced, then how come it can't play PS2 games on the 40 GB version???

I mean how hard can it be to run ~200 mhz games on a system that has like what 3.2 Ghz clock speed and way more power than its predecessor??? It's like saying that 40 GB units can run GT5 PS3 no problem but take something less-intensive such as GT4 or even GT3 A-spec, then 40 GB PS3 can't do it. How come??

So I raise the question: How hard can that really be???

 

[Carl B]

So I raise the question: How hard can that really be???

Extremely hard. The issue of GS fillrate/eDRAM notwithstanding - and this is the primary problem often referenced when it comes to GS emulation - there is also another no less trying situation with porting the instructions/behavior. And on top of all that, devs deviated from the allowed 'norms' of PS2 development all the time in order to achieve their results, so it's not even a matter of replicating one fixed environment.

 

[DaJuice]

I know this is a stupid layman's question but:

If the PS3 is advanced, then how come it can't play PS2 games on the 40 GB version???

I mean how hard can it be to run ~200 mhz games on a system that has like what 3.2 Ghz clock speed and way more power than its predecessor??? It's like saying that 40 GB units can run GT5 PS3 no problem but take something less-intensive such as GT4 or even GT3 A-spec, then 40 GB PS3 can't do it. How come??

So I raise the question: How hard can that really be???

Think of it like this, the PS2 speaks a different language than the PS3. You need an interpreter (the emulator software) and writing that interpreter is a complicated task. It's not incompetence on the part of Sony, it's just not as simple as you imagine it is.

 

[Nesh]

According to one forum this site claims that the 40GB PS3 may see PS2 backwards compatibility in Octomber

http://playstation.ingame.de/content.php?c=79310&s=429

 

[maze]

According to one forum this site claims that the 40GB PS3 may see PS2 backwards compatibility in Octomber

http://playstation.ingame.de/content.php?c=79310&s=429

Yes, this is what they say...I'll try to do a quick translation (sorry, my German is way better than my English ):

We have hot news for you! In a discussion with a Sony import dealer from the USA who imports to Germany we learned that the 40GB version of PS3 will become backward compatible to PS2 games. This shall take place by a firmware update.

Our contact man jokingly added that now he has to get rid of the 60GB versions in stock as soon as possible because after the firmware release, they will suffer from a noticeable drop in value. This indeed seems plausible as many people buy the more expensive 60GB version only because of backwards compatibility - what would become obsolete in case of a 40GB model with the same functionality.

Being asked on the technical aspect, he assured that this will happen "at 100% through software emulation". According to the dealer the firmware is scheduled for October, but he can't assure that 100 per cent.

We also can't give a guarantee for the correctness of the information, but Sony's announcement to distribute PS2 games over PSN makes this step pausible.

We keep you posted.

 

[inpHilltr8r]

How is the EmotionEngine the 'hard' part?

I dunno if anyone else brought this up, but the floating point rounding bug on the PS2 means that you can't do perfect float emulation in hardware. Most cases this isn't an issue, but if you've got a decay function, it may not resolve in quite the same way as the error accumulates.

 

[SuperDre]

If only Sony would allow full access to the RSX from Linux we could start working on our own emulator(s).. hopefully they will allow full access once the unit is making profit..

 

[Akumajou]

If only Sony would allow full access to the RSX from Linux we could start working on our own emulator(s).. hopefully they will allow full access once the unit is making profit..

But who is really going to make more progress, a hobbist emulator programmers... or a hired and certified programmers who is given all documentation from day one?

Opening up RSX can be a very dangerous thing for Sony to do after all people are supposed to buy the software not make their own or open the possibilities that are in the PC where pirates roam free.

 

[manux]

But who is really going to make more progress, a hobbist emulator programmers... or a hired and certified programmers who is given all documentation from day one?

Opening up RSX can be a very dangerous thing for Sony to do after all people are supposed to buy the software not make their own or open the possibilities that are in the PC where pirates roam free.

Most of the important ps2 technical documentation is anyway already out(been out years) and at hands of hobbyists. Sony released gs, ee etc. docs as part of the ps2 linux kit and the material is readily available. It's the real deal with register lists etc. Most notably what is missing is the iop specification and access to dvd-rom(which shouldn't be problem for pc emulators).

I cannot see what private docs sony could give that would give hired programmer advantage in emulating GS, EE or dma transfers.

 

[DieH@rd]

We will see software BC on the day when PS2 stop selling this many hardware [IMO 2010.]

 

[cthellis42]

We will see software BC on the day when PS2 stop selling this many hardware [IMO 2010.]

IMHO that's inconsequential, as the main reason people pursue the PS2 is price and library, and none of those factors are going to change. (And the PS3 isn't going to stay/drop price depending on the PS2 at all.)

EVERY additional PS3 sale, however, improves their perceived value compared to their competitors, while continued PS2 sales do not. If universal BC would lead to increased PS3 sales, it behooves them to get BC out as quickly as possible.

Software BC will be out once they can get it "workable enough" to launch to a positive impact instead of a negative one. (As in, doesn't work for only 20% of games, and has visible bugs in the rest.)

 

[vazel]

IMHO that's inconsequential, as the main reason people pursue the PS2 is price and library, and none of those factors are going to change. (And the PS3 isn't going to stay/drop price depending on the PS2 at all.)

EVERY additional PS3 sale, however, improves their perceived value compared to their competitors, while continued PS2 sales do not. If universal BC would lead to increased PS3 sales, it behooves them to get BC out as quickly as possible.

Software BC will be out once they can get it "workable enough" to launch to a positive impact instead of a negative one. (As in, doesn't work for only 20% of games, and has visible bugs in the rest.)

That's the best argument I've heard against that 'as long as PS2 sells it ain't happeing' line which always bugged me...

 

[SG79]

Software BC will be out once they can get it "workable enough" to launch to a positive impact instead of a negative one. (As in, doesn't work for only 20% of games, and has visible bugs in the rest.)

Exactly. People often forget that putting PS2 games on the PSN would garner additional income that SCEI wouldn't mind.

I've been vocal about my disappointment in regards to the quality of the BC as it is now (I have a core 20GB), but things have improved with the last firmware update for PS1 games. Overscanning is a thing of the past, and blacks aren't crushed either.

The audio isn't quite as clear as it should be, but it's better (in comparison to playing the same games on the PS2 with a Toslink). Leaps ahead of the quality of the PS2 BC. Most games output in mono via Toslink.

 

[Squeak]

The trouble is the internal bandwidth of the GS. It's about the same as PS3s total internal bandwidth.
There are ways around the issue. But the emu would basically need to predict what the game is trying to do and use the PS3 in other ways to do the same.