So - 6800u - Low Volume Review Board...

That's exactly what I plan to do, but not in the Gainward review. I was hoping people would pick up on "wow, the card does well even with opts off" rather than "damn, give NVIDIA a break and put their opts on, or turn ATIs opts off".

I'll certainly run the tests with opts off on the ATI card and update the graphs, then present the rest of the picture in a seperate article about the filtering.

My filtering choices basically came down to time spent with the cards and work on a seperate filtering article.

I didn't mean to force my image quality preferences on the reader, it was just a time/effort thing, especially with PCI Express looming large for the end of the week.

Rys
 
Would be interesting to see a in depth review of all those optimization.

And yes, dizietsma, they are shipping but in really limited quantity (at least considering the demand). yesterday BFG had some 6800U in stock on their site, and less than 3 hours letter they were sold out.

As pointed out by some marketing guy from EVGA, it's a pity, moreover when it seems that the demand is really high (he said the highest of all new high end product released by them) and the supply is like what, hmm 10 (?) each day over the world. I really hope that Nv/IBM/Samsung can provide enough parts to sustain the demand.
 
Rys said:
I'll certainly run the tests with opts off on the ATI card and update the graphs, then present the rest of the picture in a seperate article about the filtering.

Are you sure that the quoted registry strings are only/actually enabling/disabling what you think they are?
 
For the ATI driver? Nope, I'm not confident they only disable the trilinear opts and nothing else.

What are you hinting at? :LOL:

Rys
 
Rys said:
That's exactly what I plan to do, but not in the Gainward review. I was hoping people would pick up on "wow, the card does well even with opts off" rather than "damn, give NVIDIA a break and put their opts on, or turn ATIs opts off".

I'll certainly run the tests with opts off on the ATI card and update the graphs, then present the rest of the picture in a seperate article about the filtering.

My filtering choices basically came down to time spent with the cards and work on a seperate filtering article.

I didn't mean to force my image quality preferences on the reader, it was just a time/effort thing, especially with PCI Express looming large for the end of the week.

Rys

OK, fair point about the time limit you had, I probably sounded too harsh, I actually liked the review and yes, I was surprised that the 6800 got so high.
 
Rys said:
For the ATI driver? Nope, I'm not confident they only disable the trilinear opts and nothing else.

What are you hinting at? :LOL:

Rys

Rys,

Granted this stops the trilinear opt. But does it also shut off some other valid optimzation else where? Can you say 100% for sure that it does not effect the cards perfromance in any other way? The only way to know fro 100% is to have the driver source code so you know excatly whats going on. Some of the on vrs off scores I have seen at other sites show a much larger hit then what was show using mip maps on/off (and in that case we knew that it was doing full trilinear). But then again it was Dave typical cryptic post...so :)
 
Rys said:
What are you hinting at? :LOL:
Seconded, what are you hinting at?!? :|

Evildeus said:
As pointed out by some marketing guy from EVGA, it's a pity, moreover when it seems that the demand is really high (he said the highest of all new high end product released by them) and the supply is like what, hmm 10 (?) each day over the world. I really hope that Nv/IBM/Samsung can provide enough parts to sustain the demand.
True dat. This release is even weirder to me than the nV30 in a lot of ways just because the demand is so much higher, the card is trickling out, and I guess just because this time there is a whole bunch more parity 'tween performance of ATi & nVidia.

It's gonna be a good dog fight, if the dogs ever both get out.
 
For those looking for an air cooled Ultra, Scan in the UK will have a bunch of the XFX boards in tomorrow. Less than 30 cards, but it's a start :LOL:

Rys
 
Gainward are shipping their GT (Ultra/2400) in early July (quiet Digi!) so I'd guess other vendors are doing the same.

I had a conversation with NVIDIA this morning and they acknowledge that things are slow, but they do expect the taps to open fully soon, so that trickle of boards will become full scale retail availability.

That said, I've started to get boards from less well known vendors, so that bodes well for GPUs allocated to partners other than NVIDIA's biggest customers. Even the little guys have chips now.

I'd love a GT or a non-Ultra for my personal system too.

Rys
 
Rys,

I heard that when anisotropic optimizations are disabled in the newer Forceware drivers, that the AF is no longer angle-dependent. Is this true?

Also, I am a bit surprised that you would feel obligated to bench the 6800 cards with all optimizations off in order to obtain a more "apples to apples" comparison to the X800 cards. Extremetech did an image quality analysis article on the X800 vs 6800, both cards using their try/brilinear filtering optimizations. They said that image quality between these modes is very comparable in game. There are some other websites who have noted that NV's anisotropic filtering image quality with optimizations off is slightly sharper/clearer than ATI's, even though both are now angle-depedent. Also, it is my understanding that the current implementation of NV's brilinear filtering has much better image quality than what was originally used on the NV3x cards. These are the reasons why many websites have started to bench the NV cards with trilinear filtering optimizations enabled vs the X800 cards with their filtering optimizations.

Keep in mind that, with the newer Forceware drivers, there are really four different routes that can be explored: tri and aniso filtering optimizations enabled; tri optimizations enabled and aniso optimizations disabled; tri optimizations disabled and aniso optimizations enabled; tri and aniso optimizations disabled. It would be be nice to see more analysis on the effects of each mode.

Apparently the X800 does texture stage optimization when doing AF, so that no matter whether you set AF via control panel or in-game, what you get with the x800 is first stage brilinear and all other stages you get something between brilinear and bilinear. The newer Forceware drivers also have texture stage optimizations at certain settings, as you can see in the optimization chart detail in the 6800NU previews.

Breaking down the NV image quality settings:

High Quality: tri and aniso optimizations disabled, no option to enable.
Quality: tri and aniso optimizations can be enabled or disabled. If tri is enabled, then you get the optimized filtering algorithm. If aniso is enabled, you get trilinear only on the base texture (similar to what happens with the R3xx cards when set via control panel). If both are disabled, then you get full trilinear and trilinear on all texture stages.
Performance/High Performance: tri and aniso optimizations can be enabled or disabled. If you enable tri, you get the highly optimized filtering algorithm. If you enable aniso, _____? The chart is not clear here. If both are disabled, then you get full trilinear and trilinear on all texture stages.

So it looks like the "Quality" setting is what should generally be used to bench the card for what I suspect is best combination of image quality and performance. Each reviewer will have to examine in detail what happens when tri and/or aniso optimizations are enabled. What is still puzzling is how exactly Performance/High Performance modes work, and what distinguishes them from each other.

That said, I think it is a good idea to show results with optimizations off and with optimizations on, when possible. Unfortunately, since the X800 filtering optimizations cannot be turned off through control panel, most reviewers will not be able to realistically compare unoptimized filtering modes between the 6800 and X800 cards.
 
So it uses the optimized algorithm throughout all stages when set via application.

What is the exact behavior of the X800 cards when set via control panel? Optimized trylinear texture filtering only applied to the base texture, bilinear to all other textures?

One area that most reviewers (not including DaveB) overlook is whether or not AA/AF is set via control panel or via application on the ATI cards. Performance can be affected depending on how these are set. Also, to my understanding, there are some games that require AA/AF be set via control panel.

On a side note, according to the Forceware driver notes, the anisotropic optimizations can only be enabled in Direct3D and not in OpenGL.
 
jimmyjames123 said:
On a side note, according to the Forceware driver notes, the anisotropic optimizations can only be enabled in Direct3D and not in OpenGL.

Same is true for ATIs, when using control panel quality af in opengl you always get trilinear/adapative brilinear where requested.
 
There is definately a difference between texture stage 0 and stage >0 when doing AF via application on the x800.

stage0:
http://www.gaeugf.ch/ted/stage0.png

stage1
http://www.gaeugf.ch/ted/stage1.png

While the difference is certainly hard to spot on a static screenshot you can see that stage1 has a more aggressive filtering applied and the transition is less smooth than on stage0 which can be a problem in form of texture aliasing in certain games.
 
Evildeus said:
DaveBaumann said:
With X800 the AF is the same for all stages when controled through the application.
:? I though that wasn't the case :?:

No i remember them alwlays saying it will apply trilinear to only the first texture stage unless the application asks for it across all of them or 4 of them or whatever.
 
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