Slim 360

[orangpelupa]

maybe those internal connector is there because its a prototype/dev board?

those will be removed in retail. just like the jtag point we use in hacking xbox...

also maybe the second sata wii be used to a cable connect to hdd header on case

sorry my bad english. thanks

 

[AlNom]

Who says you can't make a X360 Slim using the existing HDD?

The mother board is shorter in both dimensions from what I can tell...

 

[Graham]

Yes, but the HDD is shorter than the case too

 

[Grall]

Here some quick thoughts....

Nice tiny size! Though not Wii tiny.

Gamecube is IMO the height of console PCB engineering; it's a nice, elegant design that's very VERY efficient at using available space. Wii's PCB is to a large part almost/completely empty space, it could pretty much be half the size and still fit all the needed stuff.

Bit disappointing MS is still using cheap-ass electrolytic caps and wound chokes instead of the quality solid stuff found in PS3.

What the heck are all those internal connections for?!

I speculate:
One is undoubtedly the header for internal DVDROM power, another may be internal HDD power, one's for the controller transciever PCB, one may be a USB header for internal WiFi radio... Or it's simply testing/prototype appendix-type leftovers.

DVD will be a custom slot loaded drive. They've got burned way bad on the hacked DVD firmware.

I SO hope you're right. I friggin' HATE tray drives, they're clunky and just don't look good. My 360 tray sticks sometimes for no discernible reason and has to be tapped to close up properly. Also, some people probably remember all the issues with scratched discs the 360 suffered.

Though a top loading DVD drive isn't completely out of the question. But I think it's too cheesy of a design.

Absolutely too cheesy and lo-tech.

They'll want to try to reproduce the aesthetics of the Wii(slot load drive & small size).

It would certainly help to sell the 360 in Japan, if nothing else. Slender consumer electronics is what's in demand there from what I understand.

 

[Rangers]

Yes, but the HDD is shorter than the case too

Yes but the current HDD carriage that all 360 HDD's are sold with, isn't.

It does seem to present a difficulty.

Guess they'll be breaking with the previous hard drives in some fashion. Which is fine, I just think they need to continue producing the old ones so old form factor Arcade owners (and smaller size HDD owners for that matter) can upgrade if desired. And it's not like MS or Sony to have two overlapping products on the market at once. Usually one will fade away and become hard to obtain.

Breaking with that old carriage pretty much had to be done to make any relevant size reductions though.

I just realized I'm going to have a bit of envy when this comes out, considering I had upgraded launch unit>Elite a year or so ago.

But I guess it's nothing PS3 owners haven't gone through, although at least the PS3 fat was in some ways the superior featured box so they had that comfort. I dont imagine that will be the case here, the 360 slim should be superior in every way (such as the optical out, likely slot loading DVD, etc).

And the way this hard drive thing appears, it seems I wouldn't just be able to buy a cheap slim Arcade and migrate my hard drive, either, should the desire strike me.

 

[Graham]

Anyone else considered the possibility this is a 360 based set top box?

 

[obonicus]

Joystiq's reported a (confirmed by them) rumor that the Spring 2010 update will allow users to use USB mass storage devices for, well, just about anything.

GAF is speculating that this 'confirms' no HDD for 360 slim.

Edit: Though this seems to limit the device to 16GB at most.

 

[Tchock]

Actually I'm thinking more of "fixed" HDD implementation.
As in PS3esque support (internal replaceable), with a cradle accessory for older 360 drives.

The cheapest, $100 (??!) SKU might not have any of inbuilt storage, and instead can connect to the cradle or USB drives.


You can resell a 360 unit to the same consumer by having enough valueadded perks. Something that apparently worked extremely well with the PS2 Slim (other than the DREs).

 

[obonicus]

I don't know if MS would drop the doubtless very lucrative proprietary HDDs. I can see the argument that the current HDDs wouldn't allow for a much smaller machine, but if that's the case I think we'd just see smaller HDD enclosures.

 

[assen]

USB Mass Storage coming to Xbox 360 soon - you can kiss those HDDs goodbye, unless you're a heavy movie watcher. 16 GB fits two full games and a couple of XBLA titles, with room for savegames to spare.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/03/18/xbox-360-gaining-usb-storage-support-in-2010-update/

Edit: Woops - sorry - somehow missed that.

 

[NavNucST3]

USB Mass Storage coming to Xbox 360 soon - you can kiss those HDDs goodbye, unless you're a heavy movie watcher. 16 GB fits two full games and a couple of XBLA titles, with room for savegames to spare.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/03/18/xbox-360-gaining-usb-storage-support-in-2010-update/

Edit: Woops - sorry - somehow missed that.

Except some of us take the digital thing further than most and have 10+ Games on Demand (waiting for Tropico 3...) plus a couple hundred XBLA titles plus a couple movies and then there is the whole normal retail game(s) installed to the hdd. The 120GB isn't even adequate for me; I barely use my PS3 and even on the PS3 I have run out of space on my 40GB three times.

EDIT: The MU has been one of the most used items for my son because he takes it to the living room when we play FIFA together, he takes it to grandpas house, his aunts house and in a couple weeks will be taking it to his uncles house. He doesn't go to any 360 household without his MU. I haven't travelled with mine near as much as he has but I do have my gamertag profile on my MU, just for such occasions. I guess the idea will be that we can roll with portable usb hdds now...as long as the items on the hdd don't need a Live connection I guess thats cool but I don't want whatever items we might have on the drive to be in trial/"please download the optional media upate" mode.

 

[AlNom]

GAF is speculating that this 'confirms' no HDD for 360 slim.

Anyone else considered the possibility this is a 360 based set top box?

Boo on you!

 

[assen]

Except some of us take the digital thing further than most and have 10+ Games on Demand (waiting for Tropico 3...) plus a couple hundred XBLA titles plus a couple movies and then there is the whole normal retail game(s) installed to the hdd. The 120GB isn't even adequate for me; I barely use my PS3 and even on the PS3 I have run out of space on my 40GB three times.

OK, of course, nobody's killing the high-end SKU for you.
But if last month's split was about 50:50 Elite:Arcade, in the future we'll see the ratio favoring the cheaper SKU more and more - and this addition of mass storage makes it more attractive.

(I have no idea how/why/who approves games on demand - but we get a lot of questions about Tropico 3 - probably because the retail availability in NA is piss poor, our VGChartz numbers are actually climbing in weeks 2-4, not declining... go figure. The good news is that you'll have a patch waiting for you when you buy it one day ;-) there's a nasty bug in the retail version.)

 

[thop]

At present Microsoft produces microprocessors for Xbox 360 at IBM, whereas the GMCH is manufactured at Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company.

In order to build the Valhalla chip at TSMC, Microsoft either needs to disclose certain design rules of IBM’s fabrication process to the Taiwan-based semiconductor manufacturer, or completely rework the CPU according to fabrication process of TSMC.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multim...s_Xbox_360_Slim_Photo_of_the_Motherboard.html

 

[Squilliam]

Bit disappointing MS is still using cheap-ass electrolytic caps and wound chokes instead of the quality solid stuff found in PS3.

I have never really heard of them bursting in the Xbox 360. Is there any specific reason to dislike the use of electrolytic caps aside from potential reliability concerns? Considering the use of lead free solder and the effect that has had it seems to be the least of their concerns. Maybe you can enlighten me on other reasons why its a poor choice?

 

[Grall]

Maybe you can enlighten me on other reasons why its a poor choice?

It's simply higher quality, more efficient components. One might argue the cheaper stuff is "good enough", but I personally like my gear to have a certain level of class regarding its build standard.

 

[liolio]

At present Microsoft produces microprocessors for Xbox 360 at IBM, whereas the GMCH is manufactured at Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company.

In order to build the Valhalla chip at TSMC, Microsoft either needs to disclose certain design rules of IBM’s fabrication process to the Taiwan-based semiconductor manufacturer, or completely rework the CPU according to fabrication process of TSMC.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multim...s_Xbox_360_Slim_Photo_of_the_Motherboard.html

I'm not sure this bring anything on the table. As others pointed the most likely scenario is multiple chips on a single package.
I'm not aware of TSMC being able do SOI @45nm or at any other process

Spoiler

I know there are a lot of stuffs I'm not aware

so I wonder if this is even serious as do SOI @ any node requires more than "disclose certain design rules of IBM’s fabrication process to the Taiwan-based semiconductor manufacturer". The other way around doing a xenon on bulk especially on TSMC so praised 40nm process sounds a bit to bad/crazy to be true.
For me it's like the guy is reviving earlier talk based on this new facts but without having thinking about it in the slightly manner (sorry if it's mean I don't read xlabs so I know if they have a good reputation or not, point is shit happens... )

The most likely is a Xenon done by IBM or AMD/GF or Chartered semiconductor (didn't they get bough by GF by the way? my memory is fuzzy...), A xenos done on TSMC 40nm, I don't know about cost but the 40LP could be a nice choice and about EDRAM last time I read (here by the way) 65nm sounds reasonable (fuzzy memory but if right it was about NEC still producing edram @65nm).

 

[Alucardx23]

Interesting analysis for the 360 slim motherboard, the article is translated from French but most of it is understandable.

http://translate.google.com/transla...s-dit-tout-sur-xbox-360-slim.html&sl=fr&tl=en

 

[Richard]

Joystiq's reported a (confirmed by them) rumor that the Spring 2010 update will allow users to use USB mass storage devices for, well, just about anything.

<snip>

Edit: Though this seems to limit the device to 16GB at most.

My 1TB external drive shows up as a "USB mass storage device" on Windows. Is there any problem for it to work the same on XBOX?

 

[assen]

Yep, it won't work. No idea why, though. (Except to protect revenue stream from HDDs, and to clearly delineate SKUs, of course.)