SLI Vs. Crossfire

Quitch

Veteran
And yes, I'm talking about nVidias SLI :p

I was just wondering whether anyone has revisited this topic recently? The last time I looked into it the two of the four (?) methods used by Crossfire hadn't been employed yet and the tech was too new to get overly interested in.

Of course, that's changed.
 
I'd say wait for R6xx to see if that brings anything new there, but considering the state of NV's drivers for Vista, I'd be surprised if R6x0 Crossfire isn't more attractive in some ways.
 
Of course, that's changed.

Well yes, ATI took the SLI route wrt bridge cables instead of dongles.
but as soon as we think it's safe to do an apples to apples comparison we are waiting for quad setups etc.

I surely think Crossfire has matured and the public acceptance (read: altered viewpoint) of R600 would also be influenced by a proper implementation of Crossfire in Dual or Quad setups when the reviews hit.
 
Sorry, "proper" implementation of Crossfire? What is the issue with the current setup, which I admit I'm not really familiar with.

You suggest you cannot do a proper comparison? Surely, since it's all about making games go faster, a comparison shouldn't be that difficult?
 
Sorry, "proper" implementation of Crossfire? What is the issue with the current setup, which I admit I'm not really familiar with.

You suggest you cannot do a proper comparison? Surely, since it's all about making games go faster, a comparison shouldn't be that difficult?

I'd imagine he's referring to the original hype about Crossfire "it just works". As a former X1900 XTX Crossfire PC owner, I'm sad to say this is not the case (or never was during my 6 months with it last year). Games require driver profiles to work, just like SLI. Supposedly ATI remedied this with the introduction of Catalyst 6.7 and the ability to force AFR but CF worked for me as often as not even when supposedly being forced.

I hope R6xx-generation CF can finally deliver on the original promise of CF.
 
I like Xfire, it seems to work well for me....'cept when it don't or I'm not sure if it's working or not.

I really wish ATi would add some serious controls for it rather than have it just work "automagically", it's the one thing I hear from all Xfire users too. :)
 
Sorry, "proper" implementation of Crossfire? What is the issue with the current setup, which I admit I'm not really familiar with.

You suggest you cannot do a proper comparison? Surely, since it's all about making games go faster, a comparison shouldn't be that difficult?

It's from the time everybody got his/her panties wet because of super-tiling.
With "proper" we'd go back to a set-up that
a) does not require a master card or image composition engine
b) is scalable unlike current day solutions
c) is platform independent

And for the comparison, I wonder if they both have something new to offer with the spring products.
 
Question, since 8800GTX has 2 SLi connectors, is it possible to use 2 SLi connectors on the 8800GTX SLi? (could it be possible to improve performance somewhat from this? or no software support to make this possible?)
 
I dont see how. And theres no performance benefit to using 2 connectors.
 
And can someone remind me the reason no one uses the 3dfx SLI method?

I assume you mean real Scan-Line Interleaving: even rows processing on one chip, odd rows on the other. I think it's not used because it breaks many of the techniques current GPUs use for memory efficiency.

Post-rasterization, rendering is inherently 2D. Pixels are processed in quads, quads are usually part of larger 2D tiles. Textures and rendertargets are stored in memory "swizzled" or "blocked" or "tiled" (pick your favorite term): a contiguous sequence of bytes in memory stores a 2D region of pixels, not just a series of pixels in a single row. Most color and depth compression schemes are also based on 2D tiles.

With interleaving every other line it's hard not to lose efficiency. If your "quad" now contains pixels two lines apart, you're going to get worse texture cache behavior unless the cache and the texture layout in memory are redesigned to account for the interleave. (More fundamentally, your derivatives are going to be even worse than they already are.)

AMD's supertile method is a form of interleaving that makes much more sense in a 2D world than fine-grained interleaving along one dimension only. But load balancing interleaved schemes is harder than just moving a split line up or down the screen. With a split line, if one GPU takes longer to do its part than the other, decrease the size that GPU is responsible for -- that part must have more graphics load. With supertiles, how do you know which tiles are "heavy" and which ones "light" so you can redistribute them?

And of course, none of these interleaving schemes help you scale your geometry throughput, which is part of the reason both Nvidia and AMD seem to prefer interleaving on alternate frames these days.
 
armchair_architect: VSA-100 supported SLI + alternation of whole stripes (up to 128px high, if I remember correctly)... but nVidia doesn't use it

Because it's patented and patents owned by Quantum3D? :p
(No idea if that has anything to do with it though)
3Dfx licenced (not sold) 4-way SLI to Q3D. All patents belongs to nVidia.
 
armchair_architect: VSA-100 supported SLI + alternation of whole stripes (up to 128px high, if I remember correctly)... but nVidia doesn't use it


3Dfx licenced (not sold) 4-way SLI to Q3D. All patents belongs to nVidia.

You sure? IIRC they actually did sell the patents to Quantum3D in the end, not everything went to nVidia
 
AMD's supertile method is a form of interleaving that makes much more sense in a 2D world than fine-grained interleaving along one dimension only. But load balancing interleaved schemes is harder than just moving a split line up or down the screen. With a split line, if one GPU takes longer to do its part than the other, decrease the size that GPU is responsible for -- that part must have more graphics load. With supertiles, how do you know which tiles are "heavy" and which ones "light" so you can redistribute them?
The idea behind interleaving is that it eliminates the need for dynamic load balancing. You just let the law of averages take care of distributing the load evenly. That works very well in typical scenes. Of course it can fail in some unlikely cases, but so can SFR load balancing which always lags behind one frame.
 
The idea behind interleaving is that it eliminates the need for dynamic load balancing. You just let the law of averages take care of distributing the load evenly. That works very well in typical scenes. Of course it can fail in some unlikely cases, but so can SFR load balancing which always lags behind one frame.

Right, but it works increasingly poorly as the interleave granularity gets coarser. Think about dividing the screen into four sections vertically (instead of just two for NV-style SFR) and interleaving on 2 GPUs: in many games this will not be an even workload split. As you interleave at finer granularity your load balance gets better (typically), but you start to damage coherence.

There's probably a good middle ground that gets you even work distribution most of the time while still providing large enough blocks of work to each GPU to be efficient.
 
Of course it can fail in some unlikely cases, but so can SFR load balancing which always lags behind one frame.

Does that one frame lag really make a difference. How much does the workload really shift from one frame to another?
 
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