Far from twice as many... maybe about equal to the 360 total installed base. It's tricky to count, because of the supposed millions 360 shipped back for refurbishing, and the huge numbers of WoW in China, which, IIRC, pay about 7 times less than Western subscribers...
Shane Bettenhausen (1up) rumours canned 360 project?*
- Thread starter Vic
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Far from twice as many... maybe about equal to the 360 total installed base. It's tricky to count, because of the supposed millions 360 shipped back for refurbishing, and the huge numbers of WoW in China, which, IIRC, pay about 7 times less than Western subscribers...
I think he was talking more along the lines of users going online. Therefore how many Xbox 360 owners are on Live, etc. I would wager that there are significantly more subscribers for WoW than there are for Live, but as you mention not everyone pays the same. However, a US WoW subscriber (I'm one of them) pays about twice as much yearly for that one game as you would for Live.
scooby_dooby
Legend
I don't think it's flawed, that hasn't been proven yet. First, we need to see a quality MMO, which FF11 or PSU certainly aren't. They are little more than PS2 ports.
I don't see why a console can't be a great place for MMO's, it offers the power of a mid-level PC, is very affordable, and has a simple online gaming setup for novice users.
The problem is getting one that is actually compelling.
archangelmorph
Veteran
Amen to that scoob..
And you'd win something back. 9 million WoW subscribers. There's something like 6 million Live! accounts, and some of those are going to be from people sharing consoles or having alternative accounts for foreign downloads. An MMO would need ~80% adoption on XB360 to get the same number of subscribers of WoW, but who's really getting Wow class subscriptions from their MMOs? That's too big a target for a rational business. You'd just be wanting a sufficient subscription to turn a healthy profit. Guild Wars is supposedly at 4 million, and without subscription fees. Other MMOs are much smaller, but still reap in the revenue. At the moment, given the readiness of XB360 owners to throw money at their hobby, it's probably a more lucrative platform in potential than PS3. However, PS3 has more MMO work happening on it, and if you're into MMOs, would be the better platform to be at this moment. Excepting PC, which is of course the platform of choice.
Dominik D
Regular
It's closer to 8 millions.
360's keyboard attachment seems to be a perfect peripheral for MMO. Last thing I want is to attach mouse+keyboard to any of my consoles. That said - I'm sure it'd be a great alternative for current PC gamers. If you care only about (one specific) MMO and that one happens to be on a console, it's easier and less expensive option to get a console than to buy a new PC for it. 360 however is lacking one important feature: web browser. You cannot transition completely from PC to 360 and that gives PS3 a great advantage. Oh, there yet one more problem - content creation. MMOs look old compared to most titles coming out at the same time. The aim is to target as broad audience as possible, as many mid- and low-end PCs as possible. MMO for next-gen console would require a lot of HD content, which would push the already expensive development to the limits of what publishers can handle.
BTW: wasn't Turbine interested in bringing LOTRO to consoles?
I'd suppose they keep a web browser running in the labs - after all, Internet Explorer for Windows Mobile runs on far lesser devices - and will introduce it within a couple of months of a good reason.
people want youtube on their consoles.
That's what my iPod is for.
I sure do. I've been using it loads, and now that it's gained another speed boost it's even more comfortable ... The only thing I'd currently wish for is more flash support (ok, and typing in-textbox in 720p), that's the only part of it holding it back. But I've been reading this forum from my PS3 a lot already and it's very comfortable. I particularly like its zooming features, it really works very well - a video on eurogamer or youtube can very easily be zoomed into for instance, or if you're a little further away from the tv, zoom in on the text. It's incredibly smooth.
And don't forget that the web browser is also a handy component that developers can use within their applications. Not that I've seen them do so a lot yet, but it's possible ... certainly works very well in the Folding@Home application for instance. I'm not sure yet but I'm guessing SingStar uses it too for buying tracks online.
I've already had some friends that had some of their videos on youtube, and we could just easily watch them from the PS3 browser, that was a big success. Now all we need is Flash9 support for all those online photo-albums.
Dominik D
Regular
Honestly I believe that people want content, not web browser. If Microsoft introduced WPF/E on Xbox 360, it'd be a matter of time to get *cool* frontends for most content people care about: news sites, forums, etc. There are things better than the browser itself as it would display adds. New secure and feature-rich platform for content representation on Xbox 360 is something this console really needs.
The gratest problem is content rating. Either someone has to manually rate stuff E, T, M, whatever or this kind of functionality would be available only for adult Live accounts.
Add me as one as wanting web/Internet/YouTube content rather than a browser. Sometimes the ads in Xbox Live give you a URL and I hate having to get up and go over to the computer to go to the site. Plus, I'm always getting URLs in my text messages from friends. Be nice to just "click it" and view the content. If they could do this without providing the whole browser and all the security problems that come with it, then I'm all for it.
Tommy McClain
Tommy McClain
Well that's basically a browser without the navigation buttons! The security issues come with active content (or idiots giving their details away), and if you limit active content by only providing a limited number of tools like Flash, there's no worry about security threats.
I'd say the browser is the better choice. If within the console you can be taken to website through an advert say, and then want to use webmail or follow up some other sites, the browser is the sensible choice and is something everyone is already familiar with so you have the plus point of user friendliness.
I'd say the browser is the better choice. If within the console you can be taken to website through an advert say, and then want to use webmail or follow up some other sites, the browser is the sensible choice and is something everyone is already familiar with so you have the plus point of user friendliness.
Personally, I don't see how having a browser with an address bar and navigation buttons on a TV as a plus or user friendly. Especially if you don't have a mouse or keyboard. Non-interactive content like Flash, video, photos and RSS feeds seem like a great place to start and I'm sure would fill most people's needs. Microsoft is somewhat doing that with some of the special Live Marketplace content. Check out the Live is 5ive content that's offered via an ad. It offers content similar to the web without the browser. If I want full web browser capabilities I'll go with a PC.
Tommy McClain
Tommy McClain
It shouldn't be too difficult with the keyboard add-on for the 360 controller. They could just as easily have a cursor and scrolling controlled by the analog sticks, and have the navigation functions mapped to the other buttons. Bumpers for back and forward, triggers for zooming in and out. A = Enter/click, B = Stop.
And if you want to get fancy, have the analog stick buttons open new tabs or close the current tab, and switch between tabs using X or Y.
I do like the idea of easy access to select web services though. They could have a page for that, and you choose from a number of them to add as quick links. I'm imagining something more in-line with how you can choose the search engine in IE7 where they just have a list of popular engines and you pick the default or the ones you want for quicker access. So the page with all the quick links ends up just being an organized list between Video sites, Picture/Album sites, e-mail sites, forums, RSS...
And if you want to get fancy, have the analog stick buttons open new tabs or close the current tab, and switch between tabs using X or Y.
I do like the idea of easy access to select web services though. They could have a page for that, and you choose from a number of them to add as quick links. I'm imagining something more in-line with how you can choose the search engine in IE7 where they just have a list of popular engines and you pick the default or the ones you want for quicker access. So the page with all the quick links ends up just being an organized list between Video sites, Picture/Album sites, e-mail sites, forums, RSS...
Dominik D
Regular
@AzBat: that's exactly why developing page for Media Center is so different from developing one for regular web consumption. I did both in my previous job and if there's something I've learned from that experience is that browsing web from the couch is not fun. Custom UI is a must for TV even if you have HD capable display. And if you're doing some custom stuff, why should you do a web application in the first place? Good toolkit for stand-alone Xbox 360 applications consuming data over HTTP would be better than regular web browser. Less flexible, yes, but at the same time less frustrating.
How about user-choice? I think the Wii OS is just simply awesome for that.
