Ryse: Son of Rome [XO]

[Silent_Buddha]

That's part of the requirement for a more sophisticated combat game rather than a hack and slash. But the enemy responses are really primitive. No better than anything we've had for decade or more. So it's not looking very next-gen to me in terms of gameplay. Again, that might be the right call to make a product that'll sell well and meet critical approval from the masses, but I'll hold out for something new to further the art. With behavioural physics, it should be possible to create combat with zero canned animations that realistically models balance and focusses on that quintessential aspect of melee combat. Then again, maybe such combat would be too realistic and so 'laggy' and 'awkward' and be snubbed by gamers?

That's the thing, eh? The delicate balance between realism and something a person would want to play. Going realistic with graphics can be impressive without impacting gameplay (well, other than line of sight, realistic camouflage, effects on movement, etc.).

But when it comes to combat. How realistic do you really want it to get? Do you want to hear a dying foe's blood gurgling and bubbling in his neck that you recent sliced as he tries to breathe or speak? Constant pitiful screams of pain of maimed enemies that haven't been finished off?

What's also interesting is that the combat was potentially more realistic in their original reveal (that had everyone focused on QTE). The combat there was short and brutal. Fast forward to E3, and suddenly the demo combat was more console-y with enemies taking multiple sword strikes before you could finish them off. Like changed due to negative feedback on how the combat looked in the original.

It's hard to pull off "realistic" combat without it also being "not fun." The original Rainbow Six and Ghost Warrior titles did it, while the later titles (at least Ghost Warrior) have gone for a more game-y combat model.

There's also no realistic hand to hand combat game that I know of. Dark Souls and Demon's Souls had weighty combat, but it definitely wasn't realistic. On the PC, War of the Roses, did an admirable job of trying to do realistic combat, but even there lots of concessions were made to try to make it somewhat fun to play. And the successor to it, War of the Vikings, seems to have made even more concessions towards "fun to play"/accessible versus "realistic."

I myself prefer the more realistic types of combat (original Rainbow Six and Ghost Warrior), but that isn't shared by a lot of gamers unfortunately. Most gamer's don't find it fun when they got shot in the leg and find they can't move very fast, if at all, for the rest of the game (no regenerating health, and med packs don't automagically make your bullet wound go away). But I like it as a challenge.

Regards,
SB

 

[zupallinere]

Well, I'm gonna be Mr. Unpopular and say I don't much care for the game as shown. Basically because it's realism, realism, realism, realistic graphics, set in the real work realism, and yet the gameplay is 'slash them through the neck with a sword. See blood gush out. See them stumble. Oop, they're back up fighting you as if nothing has happened, except their invisible hitpoints have dropped." Looks like a 2006, Heavenly Sword level of game, whereas IMO it should be more like Dark Souls in terms of combat, far more risky and realistic to match the rest of the game, although that of course would be a gamble. It's safer to tart a standard action game in fancy graphics than risk something new that might alienate a lot of your customers.

Or is there a 'hardcore' mode that I'm unaware of, that'll play properly? Any serious blow should have significant consequences for a combatant beyond a simple grunt of pain!

The realistic quality of the graphics actually makes the generic hack/slash gameplay look worse in comparison. Call it the uncanny valley of bloodletting but the more realistic the characters are the weirder it is that blood spurts but no wounds appear and things go on as they did before. In God of War for instance there was magic afoot. In other games amour or shields will help suspend some disbelief. With a great looking game like ryse there is a kind of cognitive dissonance going on between the lighting and polygon count and the fighting gameplay.

Of course this isn't just a Ryse problem but any title that has realistic looking characters will trick the mind into expecting certain things to occur like bloody slashes upon ones sword contacting unarmored skin or at least something to make you think that some damage is taking place.

Of course the game isn't out yet and there may yet be magic afoot.

Mmm Next Gen graphics with Ninja Gaiden Sigma or Black style .... that would be very cool.

Then again people might not care.

 

[astrograd]

The realistic quality of the graphics actually makes the generic hack/slash gameplay look worse in comparison. Call it the uncanny valley of bloodletting but the more realistic the characters are the weirder it is that blood spurts but no wounds appear and things go on as they did before. In God of War for instance there was magic afoot. In other games amour or shields will help suspend some disbelief. With a great looking game like ryse there is a kind of cognitive dissonance going on between the lighting and polygon count and the fighting gameplay.

Of course this isn't just a Ryse problem but any title that has realistic looking characters will trick the mind into expecting certain things to occur like bloody slashes upon ones sword contacting unarmored skin or at least something to make you think that some damage is taking place.

Of course the game isn't out yet and there may yet be magic afoot.

Mmm Next Gen graphics with Ninja Gaiden Sigma or Black style .... that would be very cool.

Then again people might not care.

I think at some level it might really bother ppl to have realistic wounds displayed on enemies. When the characters look as realistic as RYSE's do It could actually be unnerving to see that throat actually be cut and blood running down the guy's neck. As you said in a more fantasy-based setting stuff that's over the top makes more sense and can slightly shield the audience from the impression of realistic brutality. It's an interesting question that I think may be important in game design this gen.

In my head I can imagine a game with RYSE's visuals that has Kinect inputs where players have to mimic actually slashing a realistic throat. In an artistic sense that could be really forward thinking. It could also be really, really unnerving in a bad way too.

Maybe for RYSE a better middle ground could be to have characters react to individual strikes better with location-based animations/reactions. Where the fine line is between brutality and fun/immersive gameplay may not be so obvious. Doesn't seem like something many devs are in positions to explore, for better or worse.

 

[Billy Idol]

Someone remember these Samurai games back on PS2? This was quite interesting approach imo, one hit kills (deadly strikes), wounds causing bloodstream and thus health stream...it was intense when fighting with steal blades.

I completely agree with Shifty's post. But not related only to Ryse...this goes for a lot of combat games (just playing Dragon's Dogma, where I would love to have a similar 'realistic' system)...

 

[RudeCurve]

Does Ryse have decapitation animations? I've seen dismembered body parts and recall seeing decapitations in one of the videos.

There are two trailers there.

Two gifs from second trailer:
http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/201/1/3/ryse_3_by_jinkuromuramasa-d6ebzhr.gif
http://i.minus.com/ibkDpw1uS8VRHL.gif

Wow...

http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/3ozbqd/ryse--son-of-rome-e3-2013--in-depth-with-combat--cam-

For a brawler the fight mechanics have good flow and depth.

 

[Billy Idol]

Btw, since its next gen reveal, for me Ryse is the most wanted X1 launch title...and it gets better with every new info we get imo!

Although I hope for more realistic combat, especially in this setting...I still like the gameplay shown so far, I like it a lot, it looks like quite fun action. Also, up to now, Crytek delivered not only in the tec department, but especially with respect to gameplay...Crysis 3 says high.

I will ho now into media blackout for Ryse...it is already clear that I'll buy it day one

 

[zupallinere]

I think at some level it might really bother ppl to have realistic wounds displayed on enemies. When the characters look as realistic as RYSE's do It could actually be unnerving to see that throat actually be cut and blood running down the guy's neck. As you said in a more fantasy-based setting stuff that's over the top makes more sense and can slightly shield the audience from the impression of realistic brutality. It's an interesting question that I think may be important in game design this gen.

Well the finishing moves are plenty bloody so I don't know if excessive bloodletting is that much of an issue for this particular game but in general you are right that Next Gen Bloodletting is going to have to walk a fine line. IF there was lots of blood gushing from one person or the other then the fight is over anyways and that sense would be further enhanced by realistic graphics. Mind you this was an issue for me the first time I played Medal of Honor. Health packs are an obvious FPS conceit but there was just something about absorbing all those bullets and stepping out of range to regain strength that just didn't jive. Even the pretense of armour would be helpful in those situations. With the 3rd person perspective this becomes even more of an issue.

Maybe for RYSE a better middle ground could be to have characters react to individual strikes better with location-based animations/reactions. Where the fine line is between brutality and fun/immersive gameplay may not be so obvious. Doesn't seem like something many devs are in positions to explore, for better or worse.

Sure or just have some red slashes with no blood gushing, just something to help with the uncanny valley feeling.

 

[Jwm]

I can't wait to see this engine used for RPG's, it is just really good. I noticed that the foliage does interact with the player a bit, not a great deal like you would expect but at least it is not static.

 

[XpiderMX]

I can't wait to see this engine used for RPG's, it is just really good. I noticed that the foliage does interact with the player a bit, not a great deal like you would expect but at least it is not static.

From Warhorse Studios: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwnSo9bcIyA

I guess it is CryEngine 3, not "CryEngine", the next-gen version of the CryEngine 3.

 

[NRP]

@Silent_Buddha
When you say "Ghost Warrior", do you mean "Ghost Recon"? If so, I agree with you. IMO, no game since has matched the original Ghost Recon for tension and anxiety in a mission. That game was fantastic. Ubisoft totally destroyed this franchise when they bought Red Storm.

 

[Davros]

He could mean sniper ghost warrior
edit: Doubt it since he mentioned rainbow six

 

[Silent_Buddha]

@Silent_Buddha
When you say "Ghost Warrior", do you mean "Ghost Recon"? If so, I agree with you. IMO, no game since has matched the original Ghost Recon for tension and anxiety in a mission. That game was fantastic. Ubisoft totally destroyed this franchise when they bought Red Storm.

Whoops, yeah. Ghost Recon. NOT Ghost Warrior. I used to play that with friends at a local weekly LAN party a lot in the late 90's early 2000's. So much fun. So tense.

There's a new game on Steam "Insurgency" (not the HL2 mod) that seems like it might bring back that type of realistic combat. Haven't had time to check it out though other than a single Youtube gameplay video that I saw. It's still early access (beta) though.

Regards,
SB

 

[BoardBonobo]

Ouch, bragging about crunch time. Now that's not how to do it.

[source]

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Ouch, bragging about crunch time. Now that's not how to do it.

[source]

Having stayed(slept, bathed,eaten all at our own cost) in studios for 14 days at a stretch to complete TV episodes, I have to say the Gung-ho spirit stays only for the first night or two. After that its a slog of slavery which you know have to go through with a smile. Usually PR never lets such stuff get out in the open. Its weird to see Crytek saying it openly, especially after the R* wives open letter episode.

BTW, this was a funny response :

cmon you guys, what if it was just a single dinner for 11,500 people?

 

[FordGTGuy]

I don't remember people complaining when Bungie basically showed and said the same thing in the development documentary. This is a game being built on a brand new piece of hardware that is a month out from launch, crunch time doesn't seem that surprising.

Hell if you do the math if that is three meals a day and there are 300~(?) people working on RYSE that's about 12 days of crunch time.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If over two years everyone worked an extra one hour a day, would that eliminate crunch time?

 

[RenegadeRocks]

I don't remember people complaining when Bungie basically showed and said the same thing in the development documentary. This is a game being built on a brand new piece of hardware that is a month out from launch, crunch time doesn't seem that surprising.

Hell if you do the math if that is three meals a day and there are 300~(?) people working on RYSE that's about 12 days of crunch time.

not three meals a day, just 11500 dinners. As for old times and now, crunch times are always bad.

 

[FordGTGuy]

not three meals a day, just 11500 dinners. As for old times and now, crunch times are always bad.

Is it not the nature of this kind of job?

Well lets change the math so that would make it 38 days if they have 300 members on the team.

 

[upnorthsox]

So you're forcing 300 people to work overtime?

 

[FordGTGuy]

So you're forcing 300 people to work overtime?

I'm not the Crytek CEO so I'm not forcing anyone to do anything.

I wouldn't be surprised if all the AAA devs working on XOne and PS4 games for launch this month are in crunch mode.