rumor: Metroid Prime 2 for N5

[Almasy]

As I recall, MP's story was one of the more talked about elements--long and engrossing, with solid concepts and good fleshing-out--while PoP's would mainly be in the "fun" and "amusing" vein. The various levels of puzzle-solving and mission-running have different appeals to different folks (especially between action/adventure, platformer, RPG, etc) but I have a hard time thinking that's what any of these games are "about" to concentrate primarily on that point. It's more the method of progression (and obviously affects the game length and pacing). The overall effect of a game--especially the lasting impression--comes from the overall meld of all its aspects.

While I agree with your last statement, I don´t with your proposal about the story, since it was nonexistant in MP. It could be called an interesting way to deliver a background on the world, but not a story, since there are no characters, no character development, no topic, no story structure nor any plot related events. Not to mention that the puzzles on the planet itself do not make sense in the slightest. However, since that´s not what the game is about (it´s not an RPG), I tend to not pay attention to that.

PoP is a different case, however, as it does have a real storyline, characters and development of them (how good or bad they are, is simply a different matter).

However, I don´t know why you bring up the story in MP, as IIRC no one has. Its failure as a game and an experience (at least to me), comes from its very primitive combat, that took away most of the challenge by basing it on Z straffing and repeatedly bashing the A button, while evasion was little more than pressing right or left and hoping for the best (except for the final boss).

This holds true for the bosses also, who are much more annoying than they are challenging, because of the combat. This wouldn´t be so bad, but MP´s biggest flaw is its downright disgusting backtracking. It´s a shame really, that an exploration game doesn´t encourage you to do so, because it would take several minutes to take the path you´re supposed to take once your done exploring.

 

[Teasy]

Almasy

Metroid Prime's combat is boring and lacks skill? Compared to which game? You were comparing it to PoP earlier, well PoP was nothing but hack and slash over and over again. Metroid Prime's combat required numerous different visors and weapons to beat all different kinds of enemies. You often had to switch visors and weapons many times per battle to win. I don't see where the lack of skill comes in.

Backtracking was not totally unnecessary, you've obviously missed the point so I'll explain it to you. You've lost various bits of technology and they're scatered randomly accross the world. Obviously you can't possibly expect to find every item just in time to use it to progress, because they're scattered randomly! Therefore it is extremely likely that you'll often come accross places you cannot pass, then later find a peice of technology that will allow you to pass. Meaning.. you guessed it.. you have to backtrack.

I'm not going to go into how incredibly flawed it is to say that reviewers only gave MP 9 and above because of nostalgia. I think its obvious enough without me saying it. What I will say is this, out of 99 reviews 93 gave it 9 and above, that's a hell of a lot of nostalgia right there

On PoP, I liked PoP for a little while, because the game had SO much style. But in the end it was a case of loads of style not enough content. Still I'm not going to pretend its not an excellent game just because I got bored of it quite quickly.

 

[London Geezer]

I'll explain it to you. Right, you've lost various bits of technology and they're scatered randomly accross the world. Obviously you can't possibly find every item just in time to use it to progress, because they're scattered randomly! Therefore it is extremely likely that you'll often come accross places you cannot pass, then later find a peice of technology that will allow you to pass. Meaning.. you guessed it.. you have to backtrack.

As much as you can explain WHY you need to backtrack, that doesn't really make more fun or any less useless in some people's eyes. To me, backtracking is tedious, although in the end i just get on with it, even with games that have loads more backtracking than most other games. Kingdom Hearts and FFX (just to name but a few recent games) had loads of backtracking, but for some reason they offered something to make me feel it was worth the trouble. I might be a FF freak, but still... Not sure about MP since i only played a little bit of it...

 

[Bohdy]

I was completely misunderstood it seems

I meant that I have seen other people share Almasy's viewpoint on the game, which to me is very sad because they could not appreciate what I consider the finest gaming experience of this generation as I have.

 

[Teasy]

london-boy

If Almasy doesn't find the backtracking in MP fun then I certainly won't argue with that. What I was disagreeing with was his comment that backtracking is totally unnecessary. As I explained it clearly wasn't totally unnecessary in Metroid Prime.

Personally I liked the backtracking for the most part. I'd see a door, or a tunnel I couldn't seem to get to and so I'd reluctantly pass it by. Then I'd come accross something that gave me a new ability and suddenly it'd become clear how I could get to that tunnel or door. Finding whatever was hidden behind that door or at the end of that tunnel was enough to make me backtrack quite enthusiastically.... most of the time

 

[cthellis42]

However, I don´t know why you bring up the story in MP, as IIRC no one has.

Not in this thread, but I was bringing up different elements of the games. And all I can go on personally is review compilations, word of mouth, and everyone talking about it when it was out--since I don't have enough personal experience with either MP or PoP to compare them. <shrugs>

Obviously all angles are quite debatable, as with your gameplay complaints and Teasy's following response...

 

[gurgi]

I love games with huge worlds in which you can go anywhere at any time. Fusion, while a great game, didn't have that . I also enjoy Metroids power-up based progression. You see something you can't get too, you know you need to come back.

I'm not going to pretend that I didn't enjoy every moment of Prince of Persia though. Sometimes Linear gameplay rocks too. I just wish the game was a bit longer.

Different people have different tastes. Just because I may dislike something, doesn't make it a bad, horrid game. Just a trollable one.

 

[cthellis42]

Just because I may dislike something, doesn't make it a bad, horrid game. Just a trollable one.

Excepting Daikatana.

 

[gurgi]

Just because I may dislike something, doesn't make it a bad, horrid game. Just a trollable one.

Excepting Daikatana.

hehe.. prob didn't make myself clear.. I meant because I may dislike something somebody else doesn't, ect. But who knows, maybe somebody enjoyed Daikatana.

 

[Guden Oden]

Heh, TH game was announced for PSX originally...if it weren´t for DNF, this would the game that has been the longest in development.

I seriously doubt Too Human has been in constant development up until now since it was first revealed. Most likely, the game was shelved for quite a while as MP was being finished, and might well be back there again, considering the lack of news regarding the title.

DNF is just a joke by now. Christ, no matter HOW interactive it is, it's still just a god-damned FPS. It's completely unacceptable to spend well over half a decade working on such a game. How long IS it now, anyway? They finished Shadow Warrior in 96, didn't they? If so, around seven years?

Anyway... It doesn't really matter they do it for their own money - which they earn how, exactly, by selling their bodies? - they're still the laughing-stock of the gaming community by now.

DNF has to be the second coming in terms of quality, or Broussard & crew can kiss their asses goodbye in the credibility department. If it runs like a dog, or WORSE, looks like a dog, they're deader than a bunch of doorknobs. DNF better be slicker n shit or chances are good they'll be joining John Romero in the "won't be making any more games EVER" choice of carreer...

 

[Fox5]

Heh, TH game was announced for PSX originally...if it weren´t for DNF, this would the game that has been the longest in development.

I seriously doubt Too Human has been in constant development up until now since it was first revealed. Most likely, the game was shelved for quite a while as MP was being finished, and might well be back there again, considering the lack of news regarding the title.

DNF is just a joke by now. Christ, no matter HOW interactive it is, it's still just a god-damned FPS. It's completely unacceptable to spend well over half a decade working on such a game. How long IS it now, anyway? They finished Shadow Warrior in 96, didn't they? If so, around seven years?

Anyway... It doesn't really matter they do it for their own money - which they earn how, exactly, by selling their bodies? - they're still the laughing-stock of the gaming community by now.

DNF has to be the second coming in terms of quality, or Broussard & crew can kiss their asses goodbye in the credibility department. If it runs like a dog, or WORSE, looks like a dog, they're deader than a bunch of doorknobs. DNF better be slicker n shit or chances are good they'll be joining John Romero in the "won't be making any more games EVER" choice of carreer...

Too Human would have been shelved for Eternal Darkness, not for Metroid Prime. Metroid Prime was done by Retro, Too Human is Dennis Dyack and his Silicon Knights.

And doesn't John Romero make games for the nGage? Oh wait, I think he quit the company, but I don't know for what.

 

[StefanS]

Heh, TH game was announced for PSX originally...if it weren´t for DNF, this would the game that has been the longest in development.

I seriously doubt Too Human has been in constant development up until now since it was first revealed. Most likely, the game was shelved for quite a while as MP was being finished, and might well be back there again, considering the lack of news regarding the title.

Too Human was almost finished for PSX when Nintendo made SK 2nd party. It was then schedulded for GCN. It should have been featuring a heavily opitmized Eternal Darkness engine according to Dyack and was "well in developement" during the production of Eternal Darkness. They probably have reworked the gameplay etc. to tap into the possibilities of this generation. Now it probably has been pushed back to N5 (according to an IGN rumour). That means another graphic engine etc...

What we know for certain is that Silicon Knights is working on 2 other project apart from MGS: Twin Snakes. Given the timeframe of the usual SK game developement at least one of them is pretty certain to be next generation (N5).

 

[Guden Oden]

Too Human would have been shelved for Eternal Darkness, not for Metroid Prime. Metroid Prime was done by Retro, Too Human is Dennis Dyack and his Silicon Knights.

Ahhh... Right!

Anyway, SK probably decided - like 3DRealms did, oh, only about five times now I guess , that their engine was getting long in the tooth and restarted work with something better instead.

And doesn't John Romero make games for the nGage?

He does? Last time I heard anything about that guy he was teaching game design at some school or other. ...Not that he knows anythign about that, judging from what people thought about Daikatana. (No, I probably shouldn't say anything since I never played it.)

Anyway, nGage? Can you even call that GAMES, the stuff you run on that halfbreed bastard of a child?

 

[Fox5]

Well, I'm pretty sure he worked at MonkeyStone games, they made some cell phone games or something(Hyper Space Delivery Boy or whatever actually seemed kind of fun) and then they ported Red Faction to nGage(which sucked really really bad, I mean, it wasn't that good on the consoles, but then you take out the geomod, make it into a doom clone, and try to pass it off as a decent game?) and right after that John Romero and some other dude left.

 

[Tagrineth]

While I agree with your last statement, I don´t with your proposal about the story, since it was nonexistant in MP. It could be called an interesting way to deliver a background on the world, but not a story, since there are no characters, no character development, no topic, no story structure nor any plot related events. Not to mention that the puzzles on the planet itself do not make sense in the slightest. However, since that´s not what the game is about (it´s not an RPG), I tend to not pay attention to that.

The story is almost entirely provided as 'back story' in the huge amount of Pirate Data and Chozo Data in various places... the Chozo Data provides information on Samus, and on the history of the Chozo (and why some things on Talon IV are the way they are), while the Pirate Data gives you a pretty much running account of what the Pirates are doing at various points in the game.

PoP is a different case, however, as it does have a real storyline, characters and development of them (how good or bad they are, is simply a different matter).

More like, PoP is a different case because unlike MP's sublime story, it just rams it right down your throat with lengthy cutscenes and extensive dialogue, something MP dispensed with in favour of, you know, letting you play the game throughout.

However, I don´t know why you bring up the story in MP, as IIRC no one has. Its failure as a game and an experience (at least to me), comes from its very primitive combat, that took away most of the challenge by basing it on Z straffing and repeatedly bashing the A button, while evasion was little more than pressing right or left and hoping for the best (except for the final boss).

A lot of people have brought up MP's story. Metroid as a whole has quite an extensive and interesting story, and Prime just provides an extra chapter of insight as to what happened between Samus defeating the Mother Brain on Zebes the first time, and heading down to SR-388 to exterminate the Metroids... and on the way, it reveals almost everything about Chozo history, as well as showing just how... inept the Space Pirates are, despite being technologically advanced.

This holds true for the bosses also, who are much more annoying than they are challenging, because of the combat. This wouldn´t be so bad, but MP´s biggest flaw is its downright disgusting backtracking. It´s a shame really, that an exploration game doesn´t encourage you to do so, because it would take several minutes to take the path you´re supposed to take once your done exploring.

Oh really? I thought Thardus was actually pretty tough on Hard... having to use your Thermal visor to find its weak point (WHICH WAS IMMUNE TO YOUR RAPID FIRE, THANK YOU), blow it open, and then switch back to the standard visor to destroy the key stone in question. And don't even TRY to say Meta Ridley was easy - unless you 'cheated' and gathered 200+ missiles and cheesed him with the Wavebuster...

And um.. OH NO, THE GAME TRIED TO CONVEY SOME KIND OF REALISM BY NOT LETTING YOU WARP AT WILL! I mean, just think, you actually have to GO PLACES rather than just being HANDED the correct route on a silver platter! Heaven forbid!

 

[Ty]

Well, I'm pretty sure he worked at MonkeyStone games, they made some cell phone games or something(Hyper Space Delivery Boy or whatever actually seemed kind of fun) and then they ported Red Faction to nGage(which sucked really really bad, I mean, it wasn't that good on the consoles, but then you take out the geomod, make it into a doom clone, and try to pass it off as a decent game?) and right after that John Romero and some other dude left.

I believe Tom Hall and John R are at Midway now (working on the next Gauntlet or something).

 

[Fox5]

While I agree with your last statement, I don´t with your proposal about the story, since it was nonexistant in MP. It could be called an interesting way to deliver a background on the world, but not a story, since there are no characters, no character development, no topic, no story structure nor any plot related events. Not to mention that the puzzles on the planet itself do not make sense in the slightest. However, since that´s not what the game is about (it´s not an RPG), I tend to not pay attention to that.

The story is almost entirely provided as 'back story' in the huge amount of Pirate Data and Chozo Data in various places... the Chozo Data provides information on Samus, and on the history of the Chozo (and why some things on Talon IV are the way they are), while the Pirate Data gives you a pretty much running account of what the Pirates are doing at various points in the game.

PoP is a different case, however, as it does have a real storyline, characters and development of them (how good or bad they are, is simply a different matter).

More like, PoP is a different case because unlike MP's sublime story, it just rams it right down your throat with lengthy cutscenes and extensive dialogue, something MP dispensed with in favour of, you know, letting you play the game throughout.

However, I don´t know why you bring up the story in MP, as IIRC no one has. Its failure as a game and an experience (at least to me), comes from its very primitive combat, that took away most of the challenge by basing it on Z straffing and repeatedly bashing the A button, while evasion was little more than pressing right or left and hoping for the best (except for the final boss).

A lot of people have brought up MP's story. Metroid as a whole has quite an extensive and interesting story, and Prime just provides an extra chapter of insight as to what happened between Samus defeating the Mother Brain on Zebes the first time, and heading down to SR-388 to exterminate the Metroids... and on the way, it reveals almost everything about Chozo history, as well as showing just how... inept the Space Pirates are, despite being technologically advanced.

This holds true for the bosses also, who are much more annoying than they are challenging, because of the combat. This wouldn´t be so bad, but MP´s biggest flaw is its downright disgusting backtracking. It´s a shame really, that an exploration game doesn´t encourage you to do so, because it would take several minutes to take the path you´re supposed to take once your done exploring.

Oh really? I thought Thardus was actually pretty tough on Hard... having to use your Thermal visor to find its weak point (WHICH WAS IMMUNE TO YOUR RAPID FIRE, THANK YOU), blow it open, and then switch back to the standard visor to destroy the key stone in question. And don't even TRY to say Meta Ridley was easy - unless you 'cheated' and gathered 200+ missiles and cheesed him with the Wavebuster...

And um.. OH NO, THE GAME TRIED TO CONVEY SOME KIND OF REALISM BY NOT LETTING YOU WARP AT WILL! I mean, just think, you actually have to GO PLACES rather than just being HANDED the correct route on a silver platter! Heaven forbid!

Umm, I didn't play on hard, but I found metaridley pretty easy. At first I realized the wavebuster was really good against him, but I quickly ran out of ammo and did very little damage. I just found him easy to dodge, but the omega pirate, now that was a hard boss.

 

[Tagrineth]

Umm, I didn't play on hard, but I found metaridley pretty easy. At first I realized the wavebuster was really good against him, but I quickly ran out of ammo and did very little damage. I just found him easy to dodge, but the omega pirate, now that was a hard boss.

Of course I was still referring to hard. Meta Ridley lunges faster and much more often on hard...

And why does everyone think Omega Pirate was hard? Did nobody else realise you can hit him with like 2-3 Super Missiles every time you get him to disappear? I lost maybe 2 energy tanks fighting him on Hard...