Roch On the MGS 4 Trailer

[Metalgearih]

MGS fan and Treyarch executive producer, Stuart Roch, recently shared his thoughts on Hideo Kojima's impressive Metal Gear Solid 4 trailer on his blog. Roch has some strong words for developers who say "there's nothing special about it, we could do that".
ImageStuart Roch published a full version of this piece on his blog.

I guess you could say I’m a Metal Gear fan, but to put the finest point on it, I think I’m more a fan of Kojima (and team) than the Metal Gear games themselves. I appreciate Kojima’s ability to do things with atmosphere and cinematic content that causes other developers scratch their heads and ask themselves, “Why didn’t we do that?â€

Kojima’s team is always ‘doing’ things while other teams are grumbling about how they’re ‘going to be’ doing them.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1129&Itemid=2

Indeed! Why is it that developers(and some of us consumers) are always saying Kojima's trailers aren't 'that' impressive and it's visuals are always lesser or equal to "insert title here". But somehow when we recall the time between E3 2000's Sons of Liberty trailer and now. We don't see any single game surpassing the cinematic quality of Kojima's direction. Oh I mean ofcourse, other than the MGS Snake Eater game from Kojima and his team themselves.

The only game I've seen recently closing in is Indigo Prophecy in the cinematic story progression like MGS.

 

[Metalgearih]

Oh, I see I can't edit my post. Lemme add that the intention wasn't to rant against anyone in particular but that why is it that developers aren't following in the same path as Kojima. Is it too hard for gaming industry to find artistic talent that can judge a videogame's cinemtographic capabilities? And you know stuff like that. We're already over the million dollar mark on production budgets of a multi-platform game so why aren't we still getting there in line with Kojima n his team with the rest of the gaming industry.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Just because one director can make an amazing movie, doesn't mean all directors can. Some people just have talent.

 

[ecliptic]

The word 'movie' aptly describes MGS games.

 

[BlueTsunami]

The word 'movie' aptly describes MGS games.

Is that a bad thing?

 

[ecliptic]

Is that a bad thing?

Well usually when I play a game, I want to actually play a game. Not watch a movie. I can count a thousand different hollywood productions that are better than every MGS game. It's a B-movie series hiding itself in the videogame entertainment sector and reaping the rewards from it.

 

[liverkick]

Have any developers actually gone out of there way to say on record that the trailer "was nothing special"? Roch's personal account is rather surprising to me, I didnt realize Kojima's work struck a nerve with some folks in the business like that.

The word 'movie' aptly describes MGS games.

As does excellent, inventive and engaging gameplay.

It's a B-movie series hiding itself in the videogame entertainment sector and reaping the rewards from it.

Hehe, are you actually trying to make it sound subversive?

 

[Inane_Dork]

Roch's personal account is rather surprising to me, I didnt realize Kojima's work struck a nerve with some folks in the business like that.

I see it as more than a little understandable. The fact that it had Kojima, Konami and MGS plastered all over it made a huge difference in the reaction to and acceptance of the trailer. I know I would not be all too happy about that. 'Course, I would also realize that at least some of that is deserved.

And please, don't respond with a treatise. I'm just asking you to put yourself in the shoes of other game designers.

Hehe, are you actually trying to make it sound subversive?

I thought it was well known that MGS is based on Escape from LA or whatever that mediocre Kurt Russell movie was. Was that what he meant maybe?

 

[crystalcube]

MGS is made like an interactive movie. Many people may not like that style but it seems there are more people who like it.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Zoooooomm!!!!

I think the whole point of Metal Gear and as Inane_Dork has pointed out (MGS's roots) has gone over ecliptics head. There are other aspects to a game that make out the game as a whole. The MGS series just happens to be very story driven. B-Movie? This coming from a person that doesn't seems to like sitting down and taking in dialogue and story pregression.

Meh...differeing opinion I guess it is (I guess thats the name for it now)

 

[liverkick]

I see it as more than a little understandable. The fact that it had Kojima, Konami and MGS plastered all over it made a huge difference in the reaction to and acceptance of the trailer. I know I would not be all too happy about that. 'Course, I would also realize that at least some of that is deserved.

That Kojima has cultivated a fanbase through a distinct style and quality that generates a large amount of expectation and positive response is anything but undeserved. Any other assertion couldn't be more pretentious and pedantic in my eyes. Unhappy about what exactly? This is what making games is all about, connecting with fans.

Roch is on point in that who ever is grumbling about whatever the hell it is they're really grumbling about, don't seem to be able to crank out the same quality or gain the same reception from gamers in return. I cant put myself in their shoes because their shoes seem to be full of jealous bullshit.

And please, don't respond with a treatise.

Who do you think I am, Acert?

j/k Acert.

I thought it was well known that MGS is based on Escape from LA or whatever that mediocre Kurt Russell movie was. Was that what he meant maybe?

No, I think he was inferring that gamers are dumb with no taste for enjoying MG's campy and overly melodramatic scripts with crappy gameplay, and Kojima has been reaping the benefits off the silly rubes ever since. Or something like that.

And yes, Kojima is a big John Carpenter fanboi.

 

[randycat99]

I'm thinking this "ecliptic" fellow is a particularly young scamp. Too young to have seen what a real interactive movie was back in "the day", to foolishly lump the MGS style as an "interactive movie". The true "interactive movie" genre died in what, the 3D0 era?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

No, I think he was inferring that gamers are dumb with no taste for enjoying MG's campy and overly melodramatic scripts with crappy gameplay, and Kojima has been reaping the benefits off the silly rubes ever since.

Basically insulting people for having a different taste in games to himself. Nice!

I see nothing wrong in MGS's style. Haven't played a great deal myself but what I have played had good gameplay and a strong storyline of sorts, though utterly insanely crazy and unfathomable to me. Solid snakes and Liquid snakes and some wierd occassions where I was told to stop playing the game and go do something else...

I'll also add relevantly that I played this MGS with a friend, taking turns of playing and spectating. It was an enjoyable experience even just watching the game.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yeah I wish more games could be like what Kojima puts out. But I would say that maybe one dev team can closely match him. And that's Rockstar. They have had some great games with great story telling involved. The only thing holding them back from being exactly as good as Kojima are the graphics. Had GTA3, Vice City, and San Andreas had the graphics that Kojima's games do I would bet a million dollars that they would be precieved the same way.



R* games could be A rated movies by the way as well as Kojima's. *runs*

 

[Phil]

Ugh. Rockstar? GTA's a brilliant game, but there's nothing that would put Rockstar and Kojima's team in the same league: they're really aiming for different experiences.

Personally, KillZone impressed me much with the art-direction which reminded me a lot of some of the MGS scenes. I don't know of any team or game that aimed for the interactive movie experience though..

 

[liverkick]

I see nothing wrong in MGS's style. Haven't played a great deal myself but what I have played had good gameplay and a strong storyline of sorts, though utterly insanely crazy and unfathomable to me. Solid snakes and Liquid snakes and some wierd occassions where I was told to stop playing the game and go do something else...

For fans of the series that self-referential humor has always been a big part of what makes MG so endearing I think. For all the melodrama and crazy plot twists its never too far from having that tongue firmly in cheek, much the same way the Bond and Carpenter films are at their best.

If you havent been able to check out MGS 3 yet I'd highly recommend it. MGS 2 was a bit polarizing for fans but 3 returns to the roots of the original. Its Kojima Productions at the top of their form in every area from game design, AI, interaction, visuals, direction, and storytelling. One of the best games of the generation.

 

[mckmas8808]

Ugh. Rockstar? GTA's a brilliant game, but there's nothing that would put Rockstar and Kojima's team in the same league: they're really aiming for different experiences.

Personally, KillZone impressed me much with the art-direction which reminded me a lot of some of the MGS scenes. I don't know of any team or game that aimed for the interactive movie experience though..

GTA is the interactive movie experience. As a matter of fact they even made a short movie that you can buy. It shows what happened before GTA:SA. If you take every cutscene in Vice City and San Andreas and pasted it together it would be quite a decent movie. As a matter of fact they could turn both of those games into movies. Oh I forgot they were movies.

Vice City being based off of Scarface a little and San Andreas being based off of Boy N' The Hood.

 

[MoeStooge]

Maybe I am showing my PC gamer bias, but I would take another System Shock game over a MGS game. I want interactivity, I want to feel like I am the story not like I am watching it. That said, MGS games are still fun.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Maybe I am showing my PC gamer bias, but I would take another System Shock game over a MGS game. I want interactivity, I want to feel like I am the story not like I am watching it. That said, MGS games are still fun.

Fortunatley Kojima has wanted to change the MGS series so your more involved in cutscenes. I'm not sure what that means...either scaling back on cutscenes as a whole...or doing a Half-Life 2 way of it and have the story progression happen without cutscenes. Either way i'm hooked on the general MGS storyline and want to find out what happends.