Revolution Tech Details Emerge ( Xbox1+ performance, 128 MB RAM )

Megadrive1988 said:
R300 is the minimum standard I'd expect from Hollywood.

Amen to that, personally I would put a R515 instead with a equivalent CPU ( I hope for more than equivalent thought).

The more interesting thing is that even if we want we probably would have a hard time coming with something that is less than 4x faster than a XB using any DX9 HW from ATI (and they stated that it will be at least DX9 like), so I will not belive in these till official.

IMO they should have enought to 60 FPS UE3 at 480p (shouldnt be hard) beyond that I am happy.
 
Man this is not good news. Believe it or not guys people (yes even hardcore gamers) can about graphics and physics. Just look at the crazy KZ and Motorstorm has did to the internets.

Also people love Gears of War because it looks great. Most people haven't played the game yet and are saying it will be the GOTY of 2006. So let's be real and not lie to ourselves.


Thank you.
 
Urian said:
RV515 is more capable than the R300 in visual capabilities.

And less transsitores too (100M vs 107M check the tables at the front page)/(even less if we take out Avivo (20-25M?, ~the same than GC edram)).
 
Urian said:
In the year 1999 Sony showned Playstation2 with a technical specs and Nintendo announced Project Dolphin with better specs than PS2.

Playstation2 was an equivalent of a PentiumIII with a DirectX 6.0 Videocard (RivaTNT2, Voodoo3, Matrox G400...) but with a geometry power 8 times superior.

Gamecube appeared in the market in the year 2001 with a GPU that has the power of a GeForce2 Ultra when the GeForce3 was on the PC market.
your PS2 and GC gpu vs PC gpu comparison is pretty flawed, since both are custom parts that have features still not seen in todays pc market (embedded framebuffers, for example). dx6.0 videocards didn't have any real geometry power since they lacked any hardware T&L, so i'm not sure where youre getting your "8 times superior" from.
 
Here's what I posted on GAF regarding the news (grammatical and proof reading errors retained for authenticity):

I think Ninty should keep the "Revolution" name. I mean, a next generation console with last generation technology...that's Revolutionary indeed. </sarcasm>

In an industry where Tony Hawk and Madden (the bastion of all that is wrong with this industry) still sell millions of copies, original games will fall by the wayside. Nintendo will learn this the hard way. Nintendo's vision is too good for the industry as it stands now. If I were Nintendo, I'd just wait for the inevitable industry crash to hit and then revitalize it.

This industry works like a forest. The big trees form a canopy over the forest that doesn't allow light to pass through and nurture the smaller foilage that the animals feed on. So they die. So the forest floor is left with dry, dead foilage that's no good for anyone. Then a lighting storm comes, strikes a tree and the whole forest burns down. This revitalizes the forest and allows for new growth. The foilage comes back, the animals feast and all is good until the trees get too large again and the whole cycle starts again.

We have a few big trees like EA, Ubi Soft, Activision, Square-Enix, Namco, Konami, et. al. that steal all of the sunlight from the smaller developers who make the most revolutionary stuff. However, if it's not Tony Hawk or Madden, it gets no advertising dollars and therefore no exposure and stays in the niche. However, the industry needs these new ideas to survive. However, these smaller devs are choked out and either close their doors or get on the cookie-cutter-shit bandwagon. Then the industry gets dry and stale and eventually collapses. That's going to happen soon, I don't know when, but soon. People are going to get sick of playing the same old shit over and over again.

Maybe Nintendo realizes this and Revolution could possibly ride out the eventual collapse of the industry and take it in a new direction. Fuck the establishment. Perhaps we're all dead fucking wrong. Perhaps it has nothing to do with better visuals, better sound or better physics. Perhaps it has everything to do with game mechanics and ideas. Perhaps its the way we think about games that need to change. Nintendo's vision is that the next generation has little to do with having better graphics. However, that's how our jaded asses have been programmed to think over the years. Shit, if a console doesn't have better graphics, better sound, and better physics then it's not "next gen" in our view. However, the shit that we fail to realize is that the thing that seperates games from music and movies is that we "PLAY" them. It's the interaction that distinguishes games from the other mediums. So why has graphics become the benchmark in a medium where GAMEPLAY is the unique identifier? Who knows. Graphics should be the benchmark for movies and sound should be a benchmark for music. How backwards have we become?

Do we judge a music album based on the music video? Hell no, that doesn't make sense since it's the SOUND that matters. Do we judge a movie by how good the soundtrack is? Hell no, that doesn't make sense since it's the VISUAL PERFORMANCE that matters. Do we judge games primarily by how good the GRAPHICS are? Yes we do. In a medium where graphics should take a backseat to interactivity, the majority of us have been trained like Pavlov's dogs to salivate at graphics and put gameplay in the backseat. Case in point: The whole MGS4 "unveiling" (or the whole PS3 unvieling for that matter). Like little trained monkies we jumped up and down at these graphics and claimed that "The next generation is here!" That's stupid. I'm stupid. We're all stupid. We've all been duped. Now most of us are all but ready to write-off a console that could be just what this stale fucking industry needs just because it doesn't meet our bastardized benchmark of what constitutes a "next generation" console, namely better graphics. We're a bunch of marketing tools for lazy developers who'd rather get rich by just improving visuals, animation and physics while giving us the same gameplay experience as the Playstation.

That's like McDonalds adding one more piece of bread to the Bic Mac and calling it the "Next Generation of Burgers." Then they brainwash consumers into believing that a real next generation burger is taller than the rest. No matter that it tastes the fucking same as the regular Big Mac...it just looks better. That's the way the game industry has trained us. We now believe that next generation games are games that primarily LOOK BETTER than previous games. The evidence is that companies like Sony get away with showing reels and reels of game movie footage (whether or not they are real-time or not is moot) and we get excited as if graphics are the foremost benchmark of a next generation console. It's a fucking joke and this thread proves it.

But then again, it's called VIDEO games. So I guess the visual aspect of it all does play an important part. But should it be more important than the interactive aspect. It is called video GAMES, you know GAMES that are played on a video screen. However, it seems that Sony/MS main aim is to make game VIDEOS.

So I guess this is what seperates the next generation of consoles. We have Nintendo with it's VIDEO GAME machine and Sony and MS with their GAME VIDEO machines. Let's just agree to create that distinction so that we don't confuse ourselves.
 
Man this is not good news. Believe it or not guys people (yes even hardcore gamers) can about graphics and physics. Just look at the crazy KZ and Motorstorm has did to the internets.

Also people love Gears of War because it looks great. Most people haven't played the game yet and are saying it will be the GOTY of 2006. So let's be real and not lie to ourselves.

Of course people care about graphics. But how many people care about HDTV resolutions?
 
For console games, a certain level of Graphics is required.

I read some about how this new controller could be a revolutionary for FPS games. That may be true, but what kind of a FPS game will you have in this generation with 128mb total Ram?

I am sure the Hollywood GPU will have lots of shader power, but you are still talking about something that is only slightly better than Xbox level Graphics. Probably about like a current FPS on medium to high settings depending on the game.

What this system really says to me is one Gimmick game after the next. However, I can see a few really cool possibilities. Like Zelda, Mario, platformers, Party games, and certain types of Sports games.

Will the Novelty be enough to carry the console against the ultra realism (physics and graphics) that Sony and Microsoft will be bringing to the table? Like in the second and 3rd generation games?

I am just not so sure. No High DEF, and the graphics will immediately begin to look increasingly dated and blocky in comparison. That may work for a hand held, but not for a Console.
 
I think Ninty should keep the "Revolution" name. I mean, a next generation console with last generation technology...that's Revolutionary indeed

You have proof that Revolution uses "last generation technology" do you?
 
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Let me just point out that the article isn't superdetailed. Is the "more powerful than Xbox" referring to the Gamecube-based predev kits? I heard from my best friend's uncle's next door neighbor's dog's former owner (i.e. it was a rumor) a while back that Revo predev kits featured overclocked Flippers with 128 MB of RAM. I didn't spread it b/c I don't go spreading rumors I can't substantiate, but it sounds like it was true. What would a "souped-up Xbox" even be? A machine with double the RAM, and a couple extra SM 3.0-based pixel and vertex shaders could be considered a "souped-up Xbox," but still have the feature set to pull a few tricks that would extremely pretty in 480p.

FarCry Instincts ran with 64 MB, and Metroid Prime 2 ran with 40 MB. I'm sure at 480p with the right resource management, one can get a perfectly playable FPS...and controls are more important than texture resolution when it comes to FPS's. It just won't be Quake 4 with Max-Ueber settings.

Would it be accurate to call Flipper a DX7 chip with an extra testicle and a little elven magic?
 
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I read some about how this new controller could be a revolutionary for FPS games. That may be true, but what kind of a FPS game will you have in this generation with 128mb total Ram?

One many times better looking then Half Life 2, running on the XBox with its 64MB of total ram. Though I'm not convinced Revolution will use 128MB and I certainly hope it uses more.

I am sure the Hollywood GPU will have lots of shader power, but you are still talking about something that is only slightly better than Xbox level Graphics.

How are we still talking about something slightly better then XBox level graphics though if it has a lot of shader power? Or are you just going by the quote from the article?

I am just not so sure. No High DEF, and the graphics will immediately begin to look increasingly dated and blocky in comparison. That may work for a hand held, but not for a Console.

Maybe for the very small amount of people with high definition TV's, for everyone else it will look very similar.

fearsomepirate

FarCry Instincts ran with 64 MB, and Metroid Prime 2 ran with 40 MB

Even more extreme Metroid Prime 2 only really ran with 27MB of fast ram and a few MB of slow A-Ram for sound. The rest of the 16MB A-Ram was only used to increase load times (not sure how much was used for that) without it Metroid would only have loaded a bit slower.
 
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Alpha_Spartan said:
Here's what I posted on GAF regarding the news (grammatical and proof reading errors retained for authenticity):

I think Ninty should keep the "Revolution" name. I mean, a next generation console with last generation technology...that's Revolutionary indeed. </sarcasm>

In an industry where Tony Hawk and Madden (the bastion of all that is wrong with this industry) still sell millions of copies, original games will fall by the wayside. Nintendo will learn this the hard way. Nintendo's vision is too good for the industry as it stands now. If I were Nintendo, I'd just wait for the inevitable industry crash to hit and then revitalize it.

This industry works like a forest. The big trees form a canopy over the forest that doesn't allow light to pass through and nurture the smaller foilage that the animals feed on. So they die. So the forest floor is left with dry, dead foilage that's no good for anyone. Then a lighting storm comes, strikes a tree and the whole forest burns down. This revitalizes the forest and allows for new growth. The foilage comes back, the animals feast and all is good until the trees get too large again and the whole cycle starts again.

We have a few big trees like EA, Ubi Soft, Activision, Square-Enix, Namco, Konami, et. al. that steal all of the sunlight from the smaller developers who make the most revolutionary stuff. However, if it's not Tony Hawk or Madden, it gets no advertising dollars and therefore no exposure and stays in the niche. However, the industry needs these new ideas to survive. However, these smaller devs are choked out and either close their doors or get on the cookie-cutter-shit bandwagon. Then the industry gets dry and stale and eventually collapses. That's going to happen soon, I don't know when, but soon. People are going to get sick of playing the same old shit over and over again.

Maybe Nintendo realizes this and Revolution could possibly ride out the eventual collapse of the industry and take it in a new direction. Fuck the establishment. Perhaps we're all dead fucking wrong. Perhaps it has nothing to do with better visuals, better sound or better physics. Perhaps it has everything to do with game mechanics and ideas. Perhaps its the way we think about games that need to change. Nintendo's vision is that the next generation has little to do with having better graphics. However, that's how our jaded asses have been programmed to think over the years. Shit, if a console doesn't have better graphics, better sound, and better physics then it's not "next gen" in our view. However, the shit that we fail to realize is that the thing that seperates games from music and movies is that we "PLAY" them. It's the interaction that distinguishes games from the other mediums. So why has graphics become the benchmark in a medium where GAMEPLAY is the unique identifier? Who knows. Graphics should be the benchmark for movies and sound should be a benchmark for music. How backwards have we become?

Do we judge a music album based on the music video? Hell no, that doesn't make sense since it's the SOUND that matters. Do we judge a movie by how good the soundtrack is? Hell no, that doesn't make sense since it's the VISUAL PERFORMANCE that matters. Do we judge games primarily by how good the GRAPHICS are? Yes we do. In a medium where graphics should take a backseat to interactivity, the majority of us have been trained like Pavlov's dogs to salivate at graphics and put gameplay in the backseat. Case in point: The whole MGS4 "unveiling" (or the whole PS3 unvieling for that matter). Like little trained monkies we jumped up and down at these graphics and claimed that "The next generation is here!" That's stupid. I'm stupid. We're all stupid. We've all been duped. Now most of us are all but ready to write-off a console that could be just what this stale fucking industry needs just because it doesn't meet our bastardized benchmark of what constitutes a "next generation" console, namely better graphics. We're a bunch of marketing tools for lazy developers who'd rather get rich by just improving visuals, animation and physics while giving us the same gameplay experience as the Playstation.

That's like McDonalds adding one more piece of bread to the Bic Mac and calling it the "Next Generation of Burgers." Then they brainwash consumers into believing that a real next generation burger is taller than the rest. No matter that it tastes the fucking same as the regular Big Mac...it just looks better. That's the way the game industry has trained us. We now believe that next generation games are games that primarily LOOK BETTER than previous games. The evidence is that companies like Sony get away with showing reels and reels of game movie footage (whether or not they are real-time or not is moot) and we get excited as if graphics are the foremost benchmark of a next generation console. It's a fucking joke and this thread proves it.

But then again, it's called VIDEO games. So I guess the visual aspect of it all does play an important part. But should it be more important than the interactive aspect. It is called video GAMES, you know GAMES that are played on a video screen. However, it seems that Sony/MS main aim is to make game VIDEOS.

So I guess this is what seperates the next generation of consoles. We have Nintendo with it's VIDEO GAME machine and Sony and MS with their GAME VIDEO machines. Let's just agree to create that distinction so that we don't confuse ourselves.

I believe that you are wrong in your argument.

The problem isn´t that the people is starting to stop playing videogames, the problem is other but the press cannot say the truth about developers and publishers and Nintendo cannot say the truth about the developers and publishers because they can lose all the support.

The truth is that the people will eat all the videogame fish cooked with hype, marketing and paid reviews. The people cannot control the market, cannot control the games that are in the stores everymonth, cannot control what the developers will give to them for playing. Gamers controls 0% of the market.

Nintendo idea is revolutionary because they will make a small or a big change in the market but this change will be more greater than any change before in the eyes of the gamers, the mainly the idea are:

1. Making an inexpensive system that everyone can buy the first day in the shops.

2. Making a system where the developers can use all the middleware of the current gen for making games for a fraction of the cost of a PS3 or 360 game.

3. The controller is pure marketing, isn´t a revolutionary experience but is just something new, fresh and attractive that will give exclusive games that won´t be played on PS3 and 360.
 
I'm still having a hard time with this .


I find it hard to believe that a chip made (even as a budget chip) for a 2006 release will only be slightly faster than a p3 700 mhz . Hell even a gekko on a modern process should be able to hit double or tripple the speeds of the original gekko with out a hit to yields . I can't see why they would get bad yields on a gekko at 90nm clock around 1.5-2ghz . and if they designed something new I can't see why it be so slow as a p3 700. Heck even an athlon 64 3000+ is pretty cheap today and compared to the p3 700 , it just blows it away.


Then comes graphics . Even ati's chips from last gen. The 9600pro will blow away a geforce 2 /3 lvl card . I'm also sure that a 9600pro chip has to be down around 15$ or so to make now . If not less . Hell the x600 is most likely around that price too.

So i don't see how nintendo is going to end up with a system so weak. It just doesn't make much sense
 
Yeah sounds pretty hard to believe even if they want a cheap console. I am expecting atleast 256MB RAM.
 
Matt (the cheif editor of IGN.revolution) says that more information of the Rev will come tonight. I can't wait to see what he has to say.
 
boltneck said:
For console games, a certain level of Graphics is required.

I read some about how this new controller could be a revolutionary for FPS games. That may be true, but what kind of a FPS game will you have in this generation with 128mb total Ram?

I am sure the Hollywood GPU will have lots of shader power, but you are still talking about something that is only slightly better than Xbox level Graphics. Probably about like a current FPS on medium to high settings depending on the game.

What this system really says to me is one Gimmick game after the next. However, I can see a few really cool possibilities. Like Zelda, Mario, platformers, Party games, and certain types of Sports games.

Will the Novelty be enough to carry the console against the ultra realism (physics and graphics) that Sony and Microsoft will be bringing to the table? Like in the second and 3rd generation games?

I am just not so sure. No High DEF, and the graphics will immediately begin to look increasingly dated and blocky in comparison. That may work for a hand held, but not for a Console.

In general, I agree that you expect a certain lv of graphics, but I think Nintendo is going to break this way of thinking. The reason is quite simple, PRICE. Of course I have no idea what that will be but if N wants to stay around the Rev will have to be priced way lower that the 360 and PS3, based on console tech. 200 at the most, but I believe they will enter at 150 and include the controller along with a demo disk to show what it can do.

Gimmicky games, that may be right on the money looking at the controller. However, the cost to make games on the Rev may be pretty low. I honestly think there is a good chance Rev games will come in under 50 dollars. Gimmicky or not, I doubt we will pay top dollar for them so who cares what they are, as long as they are fun!

I've been down on Nintendo for awhile now, but I think(and hope) I see what they are doing here. If I'm right they will create a whole different market for themselves to dominate. The Rev being underpowered takes them out of direct competition with MS and Sony. They will lower development costs for most games put out on the console and probably will save a few smaller developent houses because of it.. Think about it, they probably will be able to make a game full of Mini-games at low cost and charge 29.99 for it. The possiblities are endless. A short sport type games would be cool, Mini-Golf game would be easy as hell to make, or a Duck Hunt type remake, stuff like that.

Point is, if you pay 150 bucks for the Rev will you care if there is no HD support? Or it's graphical power is only a step above the XBox? I'm just as disappointed as anyone, but this thing could work out OK.
 
Matt (the cheif editor of IGN.revolution) says that more information of the Rev will come tonight. I can't wait to see what he has to say

Hopefully the new info will be a lot more concrete. I just wish I could be awake to read it :( I'll probably have to read it tomorrow.
 
Where the graphical limitation may really begin to show itself is in the second and third year of release.

Something more important to consider.

Nintendo is mainly a kids console. It has a plethora of games geared for the 7-11 age group. After that some teen and then very few adult games.

How well are 7-11 year olds supposed to use a controller like that?? More importantly how are 7-11 year olds who regularly throw temper tantrums on each other when they lose and chuck controllers across the room supposed to keep from breaking one of these a week? Or what about a "Gimme that controller its my turn" fight? How long till that analog section is yanked off?

If you really look at this it makes no sense at all. They seem have a real issue here with having designed something that works hard against their main demographic.
 
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