Remote game services (OnLive, Gaikai, etc.)

[ShadowRunner]

Sure it's better than upscaled 720p

Edit: If this is true:



Hmm, then yes local 720P would be better. Though, muddy.

I've never actually played Onlive. Maybe that's a lot of what people complain about with the "muddy" graphics. A large part of that could be simply the 720P aspect.

Onlive is 720p. And badly compressed 720p. With your current setup onlive is of no use to you. In a couple of years if you dont upgrade your rig things may change.

EDIT: just saw your edit. i dont think its the 720p, people are saying onlive at 720p looks much worse than native 720p. Think of it like video, the same video could look good or terrible depending on the bitrate/compression regardless if the resolution is the same.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I've never actually played Onlive. Maybe that's a lot of what people complain about with the "muddy" graphics. A large part of that could be simply the 720P aspect.

No, it's just a matter of being compressed. You won't get the crystal clarity of direct video out over a heavily compressed video stream. Even if you had a reliable 5 Mbps connection, the nature of having to compress the video on the fly means they can't particularly optimise the compression to maximise what you'd get out of your internet BW anyway so you wouldn't get the same quality as a 5 Mbps 2-pass optimised encode for a download film or DVD or suchlike. 720p shouldn't ever looky muddy when upscaled - only soft or blurry.

 

[Rangers]

Well I'm not sure "muddy" is a technically precise word. I'm just assuming, compressed 1080P should look better and sharper than compressed 720P, even as it will not look as good as uncompressed 1080p

 

[djdev]

Major OnLive Pre-E3 News

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...For_Strong_E3_With_Multiple_Announcements.php

Cloud gaming service OnLive is heading into E3 with multiple partnership announcements, including its expansion to the UK, Facebook integration, game licenses from Disney, a new universal controller, Intel device integration, and the availability of its 100th game.

The service will open its doors to UK customers this autumn, according to the company, with a dedicated UK sign-up website launching in tandem with E3. The service will launch with over 100 games, and will be "seamlessly integrated" with the North American version of the service in terms of its social features.

The move will be the first in an international expansion that will spread to other European countries as well as other continents, the company said.

OnLive will also soon integrate its streaming gaming platform with Facebook, allowing users to directly launch the full service from within a browser window. The integration will also enable users to share their "Brag Clip" videos as Wall posts, and for new users to instantly launch streaming game demos.

Disney Interactive Studios has joined OnLive's pool of forty-plus game publishing partners, the company announced, and will begin by providing racing games Split/Second and Pure.

The company also announced a new Universal Wireless Controller accessory. This wireless game controller is modeled after the one that is used with its MicroConsole set-top box, but is designed to work with "almost any OnLive-compatible device," either via a wireless link or a provided USB dongle. The company named Blu-ray players, OnLive-enabled televisions and tablet computers as compatible devices, but did not say whether it would integrate with the iPad version of OnLive's service.

Also announced Thursday was a partnership that will enable OnLive's streaming service to be integrated into Intel-based consumer electronic devices. Devices using this specific processor, the Intel CE4100 Embedded Processor, include internet TVs, Blu-ray players and IPTV set-top boxes. These Intel devices come on the heels of a similar partnership with Vizio products.

Finally, the company anounced that its landmark 100th game on the service will be THQ's Red Faction: Armageddon, which will be available on the service the same day it hits stores, June 7. The company also announced that it will add the multiplayer component of Homefront to its subscription-based PlayPack Bundle, which allows unlimited access to a pool of 60 games for $9.99 a month.

"In just one year, OnLive’s offerings have advanced more rapidly and in more dimensions than any new game platform in history, while maintaining rock-solid reliability," OnLive founder and CEO Steve Perlman said.

"OnLive’s cloud gaming technology allows OnLive and its partners to move at an unprecedented pace with a scope of new offerings that is simply not possible with traditional videogame technology. The best is yet to come."
OnLive launched in North America last June, and introduced its dedicated MicroConsole in time for the holiday season.

TLDR:

Full Facebook Integration (brag clips posting, other automatic post, game invites, launch within fb, etc)

UK official Launch in Fall (onlive.co.uk)

Playable with Intel® Atom™ Processor CE4100-powered Devices, which will be 25 million connected TVs & 50 million Blu-ray players by the end of this year
Universal Controller to work with console, PC, tablets, and Tvs

Disney Interactive will bring games to the service

Also, Homefront multiplayer will be in Playpack ($9.99 a month with 51 other games)

OnLive exclusive game will be revealed at E3. I'm thinking this will show true next-gen graphics capabilities of their server farm (they upgrade every 6 months, btw).

Also, there will be more major announcements during E3 according to Steve Perlman on the OnLive blog (http://blog.onlive.com/2011/06/02/happy-1st-birthday-onlive/). This was just a preview. I personally hope it will be more major publishers joining and more AAA games coming to the service.

They have geatly improved the video quality in the past months, espcially when you are playing the game versus spectating. Some games like Assasins Creed still look slightly muddy, but games like Bioshock look really good.

 

[tuna]

Well I'm not sure "muddy" is a technically precise word. I'm just assuming, compressed 1080P should look better and sharper than compressed 720P, even as it will not look as good as uncompressed 1080p

Entirely dependent on bit rate, both in 720p and 1080p mode.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Entirely dependent on bit rate, both in 720p and 1080p mode.

And compression scheme. But as colour information tends to be encoded in low resolution that luminance, you'll get colour bleed of some sort on many compressed video feeds even if the luminance is pin sharp.

 

[wco81]

Apparently they demo'd an iPad app, which could use touch controls or use an optional bluetooth controller.

Does the service actually use PC and console games or Onlive-specific games?

 

[patsu]

Should be PC games.

 

[Grall]

Playable with Intel® Atom™ Processor CE4100-powered Devices, which will be 25 million connected TVs & 50 million Blu-ray players by the end of this year
Universal Controller to work with console, PC, tablets, and Tvs

Also: Apple iThings and Gewgel Android phones.

Universal controller syncs via bluetooth to these "smart"devices.

Onlive isn't for me, but it's exciting to see them growing and maybe even prospering, I dunno. Are they making a profit? Kind of reminds me of the good ol' Phantom/infinium labs...except this one's real, of course!

 

[patsu]

They are real. I have a friend who's been fooling around with the service. He subscribes to the top tier Internet service from Comcast, and showed the service to me. You can spectate any game.

It's a good start. The final experience can be very compelling for hardcore gamers who don't look too deeply into image quality.

I think the other interesting development is the rise of hardcore gaming amongst facebook crowd. Over there the use case is very different, which makes it interesting. The hardcore gamers are too busy to play full length packaged games, so they game while studying/working on their PC/Mac. Basically, leave the web browser game running whole day, and play in short breaks. Spend $$$ on tokens to catch up.

 

[Rangers]

Also: Apple iThings and Gewgel Android phones.

Universal controller syncs via bluetooth to these "smart"devices.

Onlive isn't for me, but it's exciting to see them growing and maybe even prospering, I dunno. Are they making a profit? Kind of reminds me of the good ol' Phantom/infinium labs...except this one's real, of course!

It would be nice to see them get more games, Witcher 2 and even Crysis 2 were both kind of system-busters that might have attracted some Onlive customers.

Eventually they even perhaps need exclusives (which technically could look a lot better than PS360 games) but at a minimum they need to get to a point where they're day and date with most PC games.

I wonder if CD Project withheld Witcher 2 because they wanted to pimp it on good old games? Could be a problem for Onlive eventually as everybody seems to be starting a download service (EA with Origin).

Heres an interesting article that came up on a quick Onlive-EA google http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20025069-1.html

 

[hoho]

EA with Origin

Technically it's not much more than "good old" EA download manager with some added lipstick

 

[djdev]

It would be nice to see them get more games, Witcher 2 and even Crysis 2 were both kind of system-busters that might have attracted some Onlive customers.

Eventually they even perhaps need exclusives (which technically could look a lot better than PS360 games) but at a minimum they need to get to a point where they're day and date with most PC games.

I wonder if CD Project withheld Witcher 2 because they wanted to pimp it on good old games? Could be a problem for Onlive eventually as everybody seems to be starting a download service (EA with Origin).

Heres an interesting article that came up on a quick Onlive-EA google http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20025069-1.html

http://onliveinformer.com/onlive-announces-games-coming-soon/

They are getting Wicther 2, but they haven't announced a release date yet. Plus they are getting the following games in the near future:
Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine
DiRT 3
Batman: Arkham City
Might and Magic: Heroes VI
Dead Island
Deus Ex: Human Revolution
Lord of the Rings: War in the North
F3AR
Dungeon Siege 3
Call of Juarez The Cartel
The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings
Duke Nukem Forever
Saints Row: The Third
Tropico 4
From Dust


The Ipad and Android tablet OnLive player app is huge because it greatly widens the field and they also require much less bandwidth to stream. It's about 1/10th the recommended bandwidth for tv/pc. The minimal requirement for tablets is .5mbps (i would recommend at least twice that due to real world conditions).

http://www.onlive.com/corporate/pre...roid-tablet-that-far-outperforms-new-consoles

Los Angeles, Calif. (E3 Expo 2011) — June 7, 2011 — OnLive, Inc., the pioneer of cloud gaming, is pleased to report that gamers throughout the world can immediately experience the seamless integration of tablets and HDTVs with high-end gaming. Their current iPad or Android tablet and current HDTV will not only provide this experience in 2011, but will provide it with far higher performance, richer gameplay and deeper social integration than any console announced for 2012, with more than 100 games available today.
OnLive is pleased to announce the OnLive® Player App for iPad and Android. Like the recently announced consoles, the OnLive Player App will enable gameplay of virtually all OnLive games on an iPad and Android tablet with touch or OnLive's new Universal Wireless Controller. In addition, the OnLive Player App allows the tablet to be used as a touch and motion controller combined with an HDTV (or PC/Mac® if preferred), and allows both synchronized or independent video on the tablet and HDTV screen, enabling combined gameplay with tablet and HDTV, or separate gameplay on tablet and HDTV.
Full voice chat-enabled multiplayer is supported, both in-room and with others throughout the world, providing a complete multiplayer experience whether at home or on the go with a mobile device. Core patent-pending exclusive OnLive cloud gaming features such as massive spectating of live gameplay throughout the world, instant no-obsolescence gameplay, Facebook integration with Brag Clip™ videos, etc., will work seamlessly on both tablets and HDTVs and will continue to distinguish OnLive from consoles, both in 2011 and beyond.
“The power of the cloud is definitely the theme this week, displacing what had been assumed to be platforms that could never be displaced,” said Steve Perlman, Founder and CEO of OnLive. “The OnLive Player App for iPad and Android shows how with the power of the cloud, the question is not whether cloud gaming will be able to catch up to consoles, it will be whether consoles will be able to catch up to cloud gaming.”
OnLive is excited to demonstrate the first game from a major publisher supporting both OnLive's iPad/Android tablet touch and game controller, as well as running seamlessly on an HDTV, PC and Mac, to be released later in 2011. Come to OnLive's booth (South Hall, Booth #801) for a demo.
For gamers preferring a smaller screen, OnLive will provide the exact same functionality on iPhone and Android smartphones, allowing them to be used both as game systems themselves with touch and the OnLive Universal Wireless Controller, or as a controller to an HDTV (or PC/Mac), for simultaneous or independent play.
OnLive is also unveiling as part of this experience the first 10 gigabit cloud-based full-featured browser for iPad, Android and HDTV; bringing the full richness of the Web loading from ultra-fast 10 gigabit/second Web connections to OnLive's cloud-based servers, including support for full-featured Flash and video sites. Mobile and home devices will no longer be limited to the speed of their local connection for Web browsing or Web plug-in compatibility, opening up access to Flash games and social gaming for tablets and HDTVs.
All OnLive games played using the OnLive Player App will play seamlessly across all OnLive-compatible devices, including iPad, iPhone, Android, on HDTV via the OnLive Game System, on connected HDTV and Blu-ray/media players and on PC and Mac.
The OnLive Player for iPad and Android is being showcased live at OnLive.s booth (South Hall, Booth #801) and will be available later this year. For a video presentation please visit http://www.onlive.com/corporate/pressroom.
About OnLive
OnLive is the pioneer of instant cloud gaming, delivering real-time interactive experiences and rich media through the Internet. With groundbreaking video compression technology, OnLive harnesses cloud computing to provide the power and intelligence needed to instantly deliver the latest, premium game titles to any HDTV via the OnLive Game System or nearly any PC and Mac via a small browser download. The OnLive Viewer app is available for the iPad and full gameplay is coming to both iPad and Android tablets. OnLive is currently available in North America, and will be available in the UK and expanding into Europe later this year. OnLive technology is backed by hundreds of patents and patents pending. The company is headquartered in Palo Alto, California. OnLive investors include Warner Bros., Autodesk, Maverick Capital, AT&T, British Telecommunications (BT), The Belgacom Group and HTC. More information is available at www.onlive.com.

 

[Mobius1aic]

I watched a friend play Just Cause 2 on his netbook with the Onlive trial. While the actual graphics quality was well below that of the PC version maxed out, the feed seemed clean enough, and the controls seemed decently responsive. I live just outside of Dallas, and I think Online has a server center there, so that could explain the good quality. What I really wonder is how can such a service do well if all the ISPs start to introduce hardline data caps or pay as you use type models? That also threatens other streaming platforms like Netflix. At least with something like Steam or D2D, you know how much data you're going to download to get the game, so you can plan ahead.

Thank god my roommates and I are not stuck on any data cap!

 

[wco81]

Are the bandwidth requirements for tablets lower because they're streaming lower resolutions?

Well tablets are starting to be connected to HDTVs so they may have to support 1080p.

 

[patsu]

Well... Probably have to consider battery life and BC for older tablets too.

 

[wco81]

Well if a lot of those video out adapters are sold, Apple at least might be able to start enabling different performance characteristics between battery and power adaptor mode, just as they do with their laptops in Mac OS X.

 

[Grall]

The Ipad and Android tablet OnLive player app is huge because it greatly widens the field

Absolutely. This is fabulous stuff, for those who are interested in Onlive. Also, so convenient! Get a dose of PC gaming ANYWHERE! No need to drag a huge tower case around, or even an anemic notebook...

Well if a lot of those video out adapters are sold, Apple at least might be able to start enabling different performance characteristics between battery and power adaptor mode, just as they do with their laptops in Mac OS X.

They do? I haven't found a way yet to see what clocks my macbook runs at depending on wether it's on mains or battery power, but judging just from fan noise it seems to be the same regardless. It hits top speed in both situations when under load...

 

[snarfbot]

theres free trials for most games there, i tried it out for the hell of it, and its really not all that bad.

just cause and dirt 2 were fairly playable, the fps's not so much.

i used it connected to both a monitor and a tv, and the lag really compounded when on the tv. normally i can feel a slight bit of lag on it, but in combination it was pretty unplayable. i could imagine a multiplayer game being similar, because it has to go to the onlive server, out to the game host server, back to onlive and then finally to you. seems ugly, havent tried it yet.

picture quality was acceptable, there were some dropped frames here and there that really interfered with the gameplay, but other than that it looked ok, visible compression artifacts but nothing really distracting. occasionally i got a network problem thingy displayed, some macroblocking and that kind of stuff.

the closest server to me is virginia so i assume thats where my stream is coming from, to long island, it seems pretty close, but i guess ideally you would want to be in the same state.

i tried it with a download in the background and it really got ugly fast, so you would probably want to throttle dl's and stuff running on your network if you used it.

im going to try streaming a netflix movie on another device and see what happens.

overall pretty decent, not $15 a month worth though

 

[wco81]

They do? I haven't found a way yet to see what clocks my macbook runs at depending on wether it's on mains or battery power, but judging just from fan noise it seems to be the same regardless. It hits top speed in both situations when under load...

Hmm maybe they just don't throttle the CPU when it's plugged in. They called the setting "Better Performance."

But the current MacBook Pros have dual GPUs, one integrated and one discrete and they switched between the two depending on the application. So in the Energy Saver mode, it's probably the integrated and in Better Performance, maybe they stay on the discrete GPU.

Maybe there are some power saving features in ARM cores or SOCs which can be disabled when it's plugged in.