Reeves: 1M PS3 Pal sales

[scooby_dooby]

Slightly? Those figures point at something more than slight.

Europeans paid a lot more for the PS2 (£300 vs $300). Yet they still bought more. So your argument holds no weight.

I agreed europeans are less price sensitive. My argument, is that the price is to high for the mass market, and it's backed by the fact PS3 sales have dropped drastically since launch.

Do you have a single argument to refute that point? I haven't seen it.

You want more evidence your argument is flawed?

United Kingdom (including VAT, currently 17.5%)[25]
GB£299 (November 24, 2000, Launch Price)
GB£269 (June 2001)
GB£199 (September 28, 2001)

Sony had 2 pricedrops in the UK in the span of 10 months. In 10 months they had reduced the price by 33%. Why would they do this in a market that's not price sensitive? And you're arguing that somehow a £429 console will sell well when it gets a handful of games? Come on...

I'm more than happy to sit back and watch the sales dwindle, as they will, until a pricedrop comes that will stimulate sales. The question is whether you'll be willing to admit you were wrong when the time comes.

I The comparisons to PS2 launch and post launch numbers are ridiculous, since PS2 was heavily supply constrained for a very very long time. It's just a PR spin by Sony and the reality will catch them very soon.

Exactly. The worst part is the people on this forum who're lapping it up. I thought this was a place for intelligent honest discussion, not silly PR spin.

YES Sony sold alot of units due to large launch shipments, NO it does not currently have anywhere near the momentum PS2 had.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

YES Sony sold alot of units due to large launch shipments, NO it does not currently have anywhere near the momentum PS2 had.

Yeah, there's two considerations here. One is the total sold figure. The other is the curve of sales. It's like a drag race with positions after 1 second. The PS2 was slower off the mark, but has greater acceleration. You can't look at PS3 and say 'its ahead of PS2 now, which predicts better sales than PS2 in the future' as that's ignoring it's persistent sales figures.

 

[Mintmaster]

When the sales lag behind the PS2 your free to mention it and point fingers at Sony, until then (if what they are saying is truth) they are right and you are wrong

I'm not saying they're lying. I'm saying it's a PR spin on bad news.

You could look at one number for the first three months of sales and think the PS3 is better than the PS2. Or you could look at the second and third month and realize that the PS2 was many times better. Whether you're talking about NA or Europe, the patterns are the same. Lots of supply to satiate initial demand, and low sales thereafter.

If they hit two million EU sales before September, then you can start making PS2 comparisons. However, there is next to zero chance of that happening. I doubt they'll go much beyond that for the year, including Christmas.

 

[Platon]

It is a bit surprizing that people belive that the PS3 is doing as well or even better than the PS2, that month to month numbers I feel should be sufficient to convince people that that does not seem to be the case...

 

[Corwin_B]

It is a bit surprizing that people belive that the PS3 is doing as well or even better than the PS2, that month to month numbers I feel should be sufficient to convince people that that does not seem to be the case...

How long have you been following this industry to be surprised at fanboys being in denial ? Next thing you know, they'll be arguing that Media-Create and NPD are run by Nintendo fanboys.

 

[Vic]

I agreed europeans are less price sensitive. My argument, is that the price is to high for the mass market, and it's backed by the fact PS3 sales have dropped drastically since launch.

Do you have a single argument to refute that point? I haven't seen it.

You want more evidence your argument is flawed?


Sony had 2 pricedrops in the UK in the span of 10 months. In 10 months they had reduced the price by 33%. Why would they do this in a market that's not price sensitive? And you're arguing that somehow a £429 console will sell well when it gets a handful of games? Come on...

I'm more than happy to sit back and watch the sales dwindle, as they will, until a pricedrop comes that will stimulate sales. The question is whether you'll be willing to admit you were wrong when the time comes.



Exactly. The worst part is the people on this forum who're lapping it up. I thought this was a place for intelligent honest discussion, not silly PR spin.

YES Sony sold alot of units due to large launch shipments, NO it does not currently have anywhere near the momentum PS2 had.

You said (and I quote) "I wouldn't argue that Americans are more price sensitive than Europeans". But I assume you've made your u-turn in light of convincing evidence? Nice try though.

Its almost as if you've ignored my post. I said that a price-cut will help boost sales, as will good games. Why would they do price-cuts in the first year of the PS2 launch? Perhaps to keep it line with the other markets, seeing as it was still more expensive in Europe relatively speaking, even after these price-cuts. And the first price-cut was a mere tenth off the RRP. Not a massive saving for gamers then. Oh, and I never said Europe wasnt price-sensitive. Now you're just attempting to shove words in my mouth. I said (correctly I might add) that Europe is less price-sensitive than the US.

Watch sales dwindle? How about we wait for Heavenly Sword/Uncharted/GT5/Killzone 2 to be released, instead of coming out with pompous, arrogant statements that suggest you'll bask in the 'glory' of your market analysis when it bears itself out? You're looking at slow sales of a machine that is both expensive, and has few compelling (particularly of the exclusive type) titles.

Lapping up PR spin? Are you taking the piss? A few posts earlier, I said the PS3 launch was neither the disaster, nor the wonderful launch that many claimed it to be at the time. It was somewhere in the middle. Sales have been relatively slow since then, but as I pointed out, the console has no system-sellers. Are lots and lots of people going to buy an expensive machine that has few AAA games for it? How about an expensive machine that does have a lot of AAA titles? They are more likely in Europe, in comparison to the US, based on my observations and analysis of figures within the two markets.

Instead of having a meltdown, how about looking at the reasons for other people's analysis.

 

[Tap In]

I'm not saying they're lying. I'm saying it's a PR spin on bad news.

indeed

to think otherwise with the mounting evidence of failure at the current price is extreme wishful thinking/spin.

 

[scooby_dooby]

You said (and I quote) "I wouldn't argue that Americans are more price sensitive than Europeans". But I assume you've made your u-turn in light of convincing evidence? Nice try though.

Its almost as if you've ignored my post. I said that a price-cut will help boost sales, as will good games. Why would they do price-cuts in the first year of the PS2 launch? Perhaps to keep it line with the other markets, seeing as it was still more expensive in Europe relatively speaking, even after these price-cuts. And the first price-cut was a mere tenth off the RRP. Not a massive saving for gamers then. Oh, and I never said Europe wasnt price-sensitive. Now you're just attempting to shove words in my mouth. I said (correctly I might add) that Europe is less price-sensitive than the US.

Watch sales dwindle? How about we wait for Heavenly Sword/Uncharted/GT5/Killzone 2 to be released, instead of coming out with pompous, arrogant statements that suggest you'll bask in the 'glory' of your market analysis when it bears itself out? You're looking at slow sales of a machine that is both expensive, and has few compelling (particularly of the exclusive type) titles.

Lapping up PR spin? Are you taking the piss? A few posts earlier, I said the PS3 launch was neither the disaster, nor the wonderful launch that many claimed it to be at the time. It was somewhere in the middle. Sales have been relatively slow since then, but as I pointed out, the console has no system-sellers. Are lots and lots of people going to buy an expensive machine that has few AAA games for it? How about an expensive machine that does have a lot of AAA titles? They are more likely in Europe, in comparison to the US, based on my observations and analysis of figures within the two markets.

Instead of having a meltdown, how about looking at the reasons for other people's analysis.

First of all, take a look at your own ranting and raving and tell me who'se having a meltdown here.

Then, secondly, remind yourself what YOUR original statement was:

if Sony could get Pro Evo 7 out early, along with GT a couple of months before Christmas, PS3 sales will go through the roof over here.
Pro Evo+GT5+GTA 4 = big sales.

Hmm, I don't see anything about a pricedrop there.

My reply:

Sales aren't going anywhere with the current pricetag, end of story. Get it down to $400, then we can talk about games driving sales through the roof.

And yours:

Sorry, I'm not having that. Europe is less price sensitive than the US. And content is king.

If you follow the coversaton you're arguing directly against the necessity of a pricedrop, while claiming sales can and will go 'through the roof' on the back of 3 games, 2 of which are multiplatform. It's just ridiculous, and I'll I did was point that out, the #1 priority HAS to be a pricedrop, and that is the only point we're going to see it post huge numbers, through the roof.

You said (and I quote) "I wouldn't argue that Americans are more price sensitive than Europeans". But I assume you've made your u-turn in light of convincing evidence? Nice try though.

No, just bad wording on my part and I was hungover. I think it's pretty obvious that North Americans are cheaper than Europeans, and Europeans will pay more for their consoles and games. I'm not disputing that.

I'm saying it doesn't matter if they're less price sensitive, because the price is still WAY to high.

Watch sales dwindle? How about we wait for Heavenly Sword/Uncharted/GT5/Killzone 2 to be released, instead of coming out with pompous, arrogant statements that suggest you'll bask in the 'glory' of your market analysis when it bears itself out? Y

Well actually, by the time those titles come out, Sony will already have a pricedrop most likely. Because they are smart enough to know that they need one, and that their sales will dry up very quickly at such a high pricepoint.

 

[Vic]

On page 3 I said that "I'm expecting Sony to get the PS3 down to £325/£350 before the end of the year".

Therefore I always saw the importance of this.

I also said "Certainly the PS2 sold well at £300, in the five months before the first price-cut" (which I believe was £30).

Which is why I dont know why you mentioned (afterwards) the PS2 price-drops as earth-shattering news.


My problem is seem to ridicule anybody who suggests any kind of upturn for the PS3, before the price-cut. If thats how you feel, fine. No need to talk of people 'lapping up PR spin' which is ridiculous.


Sony will already have a pricedrop most likely. Because they are smart enough to know that they need one, and that their sales will dry up very quickly at such a high pricepoint.

Hmm...perhaps they planned a price-cut within the first year all along. You know, like most consoles...

 

[TheChefO]

Then, secondly, remind yourself what YOUR original statement was:

Interesting. I didn't figure people would still be in denial about poor ps3 sales.

On a sidenote, (in reference to the original statement you quoted) of the 3 games listed, 2 are multiplat and the 3rd is a racing game which competes directly with Forza2. Coincidentally, Forza2 just hit the top of the charts in EU.

One down ... two to go.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

How is 2 multiplat titles and a prologe (which sells like crap compared to the real GT's) going to push PS3 sales thru the roof?

 

[PatrickL]

Vic are you the same Vic than the one posting on neogarf that just discovered that week some sale datas ?

 

[Vic]

Vic are you the same Vic than the one posting on neogarf that just discovered that week some sale datas ?

No.

 

[Vic]

How is 2 multiplat titles and a prologe (which sells like crap compared to the real GT's) going to push PS3 sales thru the roof?

I'm thinking that if the 'real' GT isnt out till well into next year, plenty of people will buy the prologue (its still the biggest selling series in the world). GT3 didnt sell too badly considering it was smaller than GT2 did it?

And as I mentioned earlier, most people prefer the Playstation controller for Pro Evo, to the 360 one. Plus Pro Evo is being made with the PS3 as the base platform.

Also, notice I also mentioned Heavenly Sword and Unchartered as new IPS's, that will rejuvenate PS3, and will display some the best next-gen graphics yet see.

I notice nobody makes this kind of argument when people talk about Halo 3 and GTA 4 coming at the end of the year (which has mentioned numerous times). Halo, unlike GT is only big in the US.

 

[Gerry]

Halo, unlike GT is only big in the US.

Halo is massively popular in the UK. Both versions sold by the bucketload.

 

[pipo]

Halo, unlike GT is only big in the US.

I'm sorry, but LOL!

They've sold close to 2M Halo 2 PAL copies (from the top of my head). And it will only get bigger.

 

[infinity4]

And as I mentioned earlier, most people prefer the Playstation controller for Pro Evo, to the 360 one. Plus Pro Evo is being made with the PS3 as the base platform.

i would say there is more chance of pes gamers sticking to their ps2 than to buy ps3 + pes for ps3 versions. we are unlikely to see ps3 version having more content than ps2 version, though i never will say never.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

I'm thinking that if the 'real' GT isnt out till well into next year, plenty of people will buy the prologue (its still the biggest selling series in the world). GT3 didnt sell too badly considering it was smaller than GT2 did it?

What? What does GT3 being smaller than GT2 have anything to do with this? GT3 isn't a prologue. GT3 was the next incarnation of the series. A sequel.

Here is the Grand Turismo sales.

Title                            Japan America Others  Total 
Gran Turismo 3 A-Spec		1.89	7.11	5.84	14.84
	Gran Turismo		2.55	3.99	4.31	10.85
	Gran Turismo 2		1.71	3.96	3.70	9.37
	Gran Turismo 4		1.10	2.57	4.52	8.19
	Gran Turismo 3		1.87	0.00	0.00	1.87
	Gran Turismo Concept	0.43	0.00	[B]1.13[/B]	1.56
	Gran Turismo 4 Prologue	0.79	0.00	[B]0.57[/B]	1.36

GT4 prologue didn't exactly sell very well. Neither Did GT Concept. Both were prologues to the main games, the sales were terrible for being in the Gran Turismo Franchise.

And as I mentioned earlier, most people prefer the Playstation controller for Pro Evo, to the 360 one. Plus Pro Evo is being made with the PS3 as the base platform.

You have no idea if this is true. This is only something your basing on your opinion, and a ridiculous opinion at that, most people haven't tried the PS3 controller. Whatever platform is lead is largely irrelevant for multiplatform sales, as long as the differences are minor. Are you telling me people in europe are going to rush out and buy a €600 console, because Pro Evo runs slightly better on the PS3?

Not only this, but ther is something called Fifa. A franchise that sells 1+ million more copies than Pro Evo does in europe, every year. Fifa 2008 lead platform you ask? X360.

 

[Vic]

Halo is massively popular in the UK. Both versions sold by the bucketload.

OK, its did alright in the UK which admittedly is a significant part of the PAL market, but the rest of Europe hasnt received it aswell as GT, since racing games are more popular than FPS's.

 

[Nesh]

GT4 prologue didn't exactly sell very well. Neither Did GT Concept. Both were prologues to the main games, the sales were terrible for being in the Gran Turismo Franchise.

They werent supposed to.

And concept wasnt a prologue of any kind.