Realistic Expectations

[Alejux]

The problem with running linux on the PS3 is that they cannot allow free distribution of binaries which can just run on PS3s ... because it has the potential to undermine their business model (not because of piracy, which could be protected against, but because software distributors could just go around them). I wonder if they could somehow arrange it such that all binaries distributed to run in an "open" PS3 mode would have to be freely copyable and distributeable.

They would certainly have to find a way to protect the games. Maybe create some sort of dual operating system one for linux apps and another for the games. A sort of switch between the linux and the realtime gaming OS.

 

[Kalin]

I dont think a Cell based desktop computer will penetrate the market very quickly. If they just put a DVI connector on the PS3 and allow you to use it as a homecomputer with an external HD that could be interesting though.

The problem with running linux on the PS3 is that they cannot allow free distribution of binaries which can just run on PS3s ... because it has the potential to undermine their business model (not because of piracy, which could be protected against, but because software distributors could just go around them). I wonder if they could somehow arrange it such that all binaries distributed to run in an "open" PS3 mode would have to be freely copyable and distributeable.

Still, they could only do that once the production costs fell enough to give them some margin on the PS3.

IMO this is far too revolutionary to expect from Sony though, even if they do end up using Linux.

Well Sony actually IS offering Linux on PS2 with no danger to their business model.

That said I agree it's too revolutionary to expect them to push Linux on PS3. It's just possible.

BTW it doesn't have to be Linux, there are lots of choices out there (BSD, TRON, QNX.. OS X? <- that one I'd like to see )

 

[London Geezer]

Sony can push whatever they want. The fact still remains, they (or anyone else who is a competitor to MS) will not take over anyone in the PC market anytime soon, surely not with PS3 and not in PS3's lifetime.

Oh well, my PC will last me a looong time, wouldn't mind if my next full PC will be radically different, i need a change. Just not a Mac.

 

[MfA]

Expensive kits, limited in number and using custom components ... I was thinking more about putting on a DVI and a USB connector (with USB 2 support) and letting it boot from any old USB drive.

 

[Gubbi]

A CELL based PC would face the same obstacles as Apple face today. Lack of software and infrastructure, and higher cost.

And for little extra benefit. Many of the task the SPUs could do are the exact same things GPUs could do, - and already does (for example Pinnacle's Liquid Edition Pro movie editing software).

Cheers
Gubbi

 

[Panajev2001a]

Expensive kits, limited in number and using custom components.

Mfa, what ?!?

What are these special custom components ? Sync on green monitors are available and are not even needed (I use my TV for seeing the engine work at full speed or I use VNC over the network) to use the kit.

The HDD is there because you need to install Linux somewhere.

You can use your own USB Keyboard and Mouse.

You can use your own Network adapter they sell for all PlayStation 2 consoles.

The Linux kit is not that expensive either considering what they gave you (compare to the price of the official HDD in Japan and in the U.S.).

 

[gosh]

Well personaly I do not beleive that Sony will bother with a Linux Implementation on the PS3. I think that browsing the internet,email,word processing on a 640x480 TV at an average of 5 feet away is not possible. Unless they release a DVI output capable machine but does that not take away from the we are a games console line. Perhaps this is waht the rumoured PS£ home server edition will be.
Just did a google on the Die sizes of both the EE and GS, they were indeed quite large themselves. The EE being larger than cell and the GS being larger than an NV40 @ 130nm.

 

[Gubbi]

Expensive kits, limited in number and using custom components.

Mfa, what ?!?

I think you just proved the point Panajev.

Sony has made it very easy and reasonable cheap to get Linux for PS2 and use it as a PC. But despite all this Sony have sold how many kits ?

Cheers
Gubbi

 

[Alejux]

A CELL based PC would face the same obstacles as Apple face today. Lack of software and infrastructure, and higher cost.

And for little extra benefit. Many of the task the SPUs could do are the exact same things GPUs could do, - and already does (for example Pinnacle's Liquid Edition Pro movie editing software).

Cheers
Gubbi

It's not impossible to assume that they could come up with a < U$ 500,00 cell-desktop. Sure there are PC's out there for that price. But good luck finding one that can play games as well as the PS3 will.

As to software availability, of course no one can beat the PC as of today. But there are already a good number of linux softwares out there that are more then enough for the average user.

And regarding SPU's, they can do many, many things that the GPU can't. Specially if you take your mind off 3D rendering.

 

[PC-Engine]

Dude have you seen Apple's marketshare? And they have everything already in place for like over a decade!

 

[London Geezer]

It's not impossible to assume that they could come up with a < U$ 500,00 cell-desktop. Sure there are PC's out there for that price. But good luck finding one that can play games as well as the PS3 will.

As to software availability, of course no one can beat the PC as of today. But there are already a good number of linux softwares out there that are more then enough for the average user.

And regarding SPU's, they can do many, many things that the GPU can't. Specially if you take your mind off 3D rendering.

The point is, targetting the PC gamers will NOT grant them a reasonable share of the market!!!
Gaming on PC is a TINY percentage of the total market, as i explained earlier.
If Sony can get cheap Cell PCs out that will not play games too well, as well as a whole range of PCs according to the price, then they're on the right track. Even that will not grant them anything, until they get a lot of software, much more than Apple has now.

 

[Alejux]

Dude have you seen Apple's marketshare? And they have everything already in place for like over a decade!

How is the apple support for games?

Apples are great. But they are a little expensive and have a shitty game support. I think of a PS3 desktop, as more like an Amiga rather then an apple. It would be an entertainment PC.

 

[Alejux]

The point is, targetting the PC gamers will NOT grant them a reasonable share of the market!!!
Gaming on PC is a TINY percentage of the total market, as i explained earlier.

Gaming is NOT that tiny when you specifically target home PC's.

If Sony can get cheap Cell PCs out that will not play games too well, as well as a whole range of PCs according to the price, then they're on the right track. Even that will not grant them anything, until they get a lot of software, much more than Apple has now.

I only see relevance in a CELL PC, if they are sold as an entertainment oriented PC. So the minimum game performance it would need, would be that of a PS3.

 

[London Geezer]

Dude have you seen Apple's marketshare? And they have everything already in place for like over a decade!

How is the apple support for games?

Apples are great. But they are a little expensive and have a shitty game support. I think of a PS3 desktop, as more like an Amiga rather then an apple. It would be an entertainment PC.

For the 3rd time, games don't make a PC.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Sold games numbers don't accurately tell how many home PC's are used for gaming, as I dare to say majority of gaming in PC's is with pirated, downloaded games.

 

[London Geezer]

Sold games numbers don't accurately tell how many home PC's are used for gaming, as I dare to say majority of gaming in PC's is with pirated, downloaded games.

Doesn't matter. There are NOT hundreds of millions of pirated games. Or PCs that can run them properly anyway.

A HUGE chunk of the PC market is made of office PCs and cheap home PCs that can only run HL2 at low settings.

 

[one]

A CELL based PC would face the same obstacles as Apple face today. Lack of software and infrastructure, and higher cost.

And for little extra benefit. Many of the task the SPUs could do are the exact same things GPUs could do, - and already does (for example Pinnacle's Liquid Edition Pro movie editing software).

Cheers
Gubbi

It's not impossible to assume that they could come up with a < U$ 500,00 cell-desktop. Sure there are PC's out there for that price. But good luck finding one that can play games as well as the PS3 will.

Eh, since the discussion is going toward an interesting direction, does anyone on this board know this thing which was once produced and sold in Japan? (Another page with pics)

 

[Alejux]

Sold games numbers don't accurately tell how many home PC's are used for gaming, as I dare to say majority of gaming in PC's is with pirated, downloaded games.

Doesn't matter. There are NOT hundreds of millions of pirated games. Or PCs that can run them properly anyway.

A HUGE chunk of the PC market is made of office PCs and cheap home PCs that can only run HL2 at low settings.

Perhaps they lack alternative.

 

[Gubbi]

Dude have you seen Apple's marketshare? And they have everything already in place for like over a decade!

Apples are great.

No they are not. Underpowered, overpriced and proprietary.

I think of a PS3 desktop, as more like an Amiga rather then an apple. It would be an entertainment PC.

FYI. Commodore Computers went bankrupt.

Cheers
Gubbi

 

[Alejux]

FYI. Commodore Computers went bankrupt.

I'm aware of that. But it was another time, another world. Things have changed so much since that time, it would be foolish to assume an entertainment oriented PC would fail just because Amiga failed over 10 years ago.