Obivously because no 3rd party developer has sufficient knowelage to use it. /jk,dont kill me guys
Rage (id Software)
- Thread starter Alucardx23
- Start date
As far as I understood the general concept for the kind of virtual texturing that they seem to be using, the extra code has to sit in the middle of the processing in both passes (IIRC it requires a pre-pass) so delegating these tasks to SPUs would stall the GPU.
Joker or some other actual coder should correct me here if my theory is wrong.
Besides, they're probably already utilizing Cell for the entire transcoding part, and for regular vertex pre-processing to ease the workload on RSX.
You should read or re-read the tech 5 related threads, there are links to presentations from both id and the guys who seem to be the ones to come up with the original idea.
Billy Idol
Legend
I wonder if this game is really a 60 Hz game...like at least 60 fps for more then 95% gameplay time - if this is indeed the case, it would be super-impressive for me, especially if one compares Rage graphics to other "real" 60Hz console game graphics (heck even compared to 30Hz games!!)
(Following DF, a lot of so called 60Hz games are rather 45Hz games at the end...)
(Following DF, a lot of so called 60Hz games are rather 45Hz games at the end...)
Yeah I'd agree with that in principal, where all the indoor worlds unwrapped would not equal the outdoor worlds. But would they really? I grabbed two random pics of the game, check this one:
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2009/08/rage-siggraph-04-580px.jpg
To simplify things, I'll just assume 1d and take only the horizonal linear space into account. In that pic there is an 'open' sign on the building and a fan right above it. I can walk right up to that sign and fan and stare right at them. So to look clear they need enough pixel data to fill the whole screen horizontally. Judging from the dude leaning up against the building I'll guess that the fan is around 10 feet wide or so, so that 10 feet of world needs to have a full screen width of pixels associated with it to still look sharp. Then I grabbed this pic:
http://www.xboxinsider.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/rage-siggraph-01-1249610190.jpg
In particular the top half of the mountains, not the lower half that is near the road but the upper parts. I presume there is no flying in this game, so the best I can do is walk on the road right up to that mountain and look up. How many feet of mountain can I fill at most on screen, horizontally? I dunno, maybe 1000 feet? Hard to really say without playing the game, but it's way higher than the fan example, perhaps an order of magnitude or more higher. So what I'm thinking is that even though the open wasteland represent more sq/km compared to all the indoor levels, perhaps they aren't all that far apart in texture budget.
One question about megatexture: The megatexture is essentially created from smaller tiles, so is it possible to have one tile that is made from a lower number of pixels than another? I know they are all wrapped onto the world geometry so that each tile takes the same amount of surface area. Just curious if there is a way they can save storage on disc without resorting to compression. For example, could you use higher resolution tiles for all of the areas where a player is most likely to travel and use lower resolution tiles for the areas that the player would view from afar? My understanding is that all tiles are the same fixed resolution, so whether you choose to take advantage of that resolution, or fill them with low resolution detail, they take up the same amount of disc space.
The virtual texture is sparse. If you don't need higher detail somewhere, you just don't create/include the higher detail tiles.
Also, each tile can be individually compressed with different settings, so no they don't all take up the same space on backing store.
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Alucardx23
Regular
This might answer your question.
TG: You seem to enjoy making games more for the 360 than the PS3.
JOHN CARMACK: Yeah. We put so much more effort into optimizing on the PS3.
TG: But you also said that Rage will look a lot better on the PS3.
JOHN CARMACK: Well, "a lot better" may be stretching it. All of the key scenes, the things anyone is going to take a screenshot of are going to look exactly the same on both platforms. They'll get the high quality compression. But if you go into some areas in the wasteland, like behind a fence where nobody will typically go and explore, this is where the 360 version may look a little blurry compared to the PS3.
The original source for this interview is no longer available but I managed to save this part of the interview from another post.
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/08/08/carmack-xbox-360-rage-a-little-blurry-key-scenes-same-as-p/
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dragonelite
Veteran
So does this means that those least traveled area will have a lower texel density(fancy word
)on 360 because of the dvd space issue.Alucardx23
Regular
So does this means that those least traveled area will have a lower texel density(fancy word
Seems like they are stretching more the mega-texture on the areas that are less visible I think is a better option than having the same quality all over the world, is better to concentrate on the more important places.
Source texel density is the same, compression is more aggressive on the XBOX for those areas that are out of the way.
Also, indoors will require spending megatexture area for the ceiling.
Also, indoors will require spending megatexture area for the ceiling.
Johnny_Physics
Newcomer
Yup, sounds likely:
http://cache-04.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010/06/1121rage2010_e3_4.jpg
Compare the two sections of the wall that frames the window in the center-right area of the picture. Not exactly 100% identical to each other, but it looks like it was cloned/copied from the other as a base.
Wow, if the game looks anything like that while running at 60 Hz, I will be truly amazed. I am talking about console versions
ihamoitc2005
Veteran
Looks bad to me, my friend
I see very low polygon character, flat objects (look at terrible texture ceiling pipes right of character head), stones on floor, etc.
This looks like they are doing Gears of War style with outlines for everything for cheap, fake depth look. Look at cell-shade style chain.
Also, even if engine has theoretical 100% unique texture, it is not practical for budget. Megatexture is a solution without a problem (except for certain unique cases).
I see very low polygon character, flat objects (look at terrible texture ceiling pipes right of character head), stones on floor, etc.
This looks like they are doing Gears of War style with outlines for everything for cheap, fake depth look. Look at cell-shade style chain.
Also, even if engine has theoretical 100% unique texture, it is not practical for budget. Megatexture is a solution without a problem (except for certain unique cases).
Dude, you must be zoomed in all the way. It looks great on my 15 inch laptop screen, and who the hell is going to be noticing those pipes while shooting stuff?
The chain actually looks really good in that cel-shade.
And for a 2D game, everything has "fake" depth
Billy Idol
Legend
I wonder if one can really compare the game to Botherlands with respect to gameplay?
Are there any informations regarding gameplay available: for instance...are there a gazillion of weapons? Can you level up your character and improve the stats like in Bortherlands?
Maybe people just bring up Bortherlands because of the similar setting?!
Are there any informations regarding gameplay available: for instance...are there a gazillion of weapons? Can you level up your character and improve the stats like in Bortherlands?
Maybe people just bring up Bortherlands because of the similar setting?!
dragonelite
Veteran
Hey first post apocalyptic world was synonym to Fallout.
Now its synonym to borderlands which before it got released was called a fallout 3 rip off. I think we will now make Rage synonym to post apocalyptic world.
Billy Idol
Legend
Hey first post apocalyptic world was synonym to Fallout.
Now its synonym to borderlands which before it got released was called a fallout 3 rip off. I think we will now make Rage synonym to post apocalyptic world.
Hey sorry but I really cannot understand your "rage" here?
You cannot deny that Bortherlands and Rage have a similar setting and both are supposed to be FPS. Botherlands is a full FPS with some role play elements. I would never compare this to Fallout with is a role play game with some (weired) FPS elements although it shares a similar setting.
At the end: I just asked if Rage is "just" a FPS or if Rage has some RPG elements attached on top?!
dragonelite
Veteran
Hey sorry but I really cannot understand your "rage" here?
You cannot deny that Bortherlands and Rage have a similar setting and both are supposed to be FPS. Botherlands is a full FPS with some role play elements. I would never compare this to Fallout with is a role play game with some (weired) FPS elements although it shares a similar setting.
At the end: I just asked if Rage is "just" a FPS or if Rage has some RPG elements attached on top?!
Ooh okey my comment was more about the setting.
But im i think character progress will be more in your weapons and gadget like that RC carbomb or spider bot.
ID is receiving a lot of praise for its work on Rage:
http://www.gamecriticsawards.com/winners.html
http://www.gamecriticsawards.com/winners.html
At 2552*1536 resolution with AA of course it looks good. Not that amazing, mind you.
I expect the IQ will be much, much worse than this when running on consoles, as we've become accustomed to.
