R580 ready for action! Finished and working!

[Nite_Hawk]

Has ATI hinted at a part in the $300-$350 segment yet? That's where I'm hoping the 7800GT will be in a month or two. It's about the most I can realistically spend on a graphics board. The 7800GT + motherboard for $450 is pretty tempting though.

Nite_Hawk

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Can someone tell me what they're going to use next year if they launch the R580 immediatly? Cause im really confused as to what they will use with the R600 in a Q4 2006/Q1 2007 release plan. Personally i think its time to stop thinking about the R580 getting launched immediatly and seeing that next year and more realistic that its going to be an R520 PE going against a 7800Ultra.

Look at the other side of what you are saying. If ATI bring out the R580 in Q2 06, it only has a life of 6-12 months before being replaced by R600 for Vista (a major inflection point). They may need R580 now in order to make up for the loss of sales from it arriving late and to regain the performance crown from Nvidia.

if they start selling R580 now and have nothing but a possible speedbump next Spring, well so what? It's all change at the end of 2006 due to Vista, so they need to sell as many of them as they can between now and then. Launching earlier, rather than later gives a bigger window of opportunity, as Nvidia have shown with the G70.

 

[SugarCoat]

Look at the other side of what you are saying. If ATI bring out the R580 in Q2 06, it only has a life of 6-12 months before being replaced by R600 for Vista (a major inflection point). They may need R580 now in order to make up for the loss of sales from it arriving late and to regain the performance crown from Nvidia.

if they start selling R580 now and have nothing but a possible speedbump next Spring, well so what? It's all change at the end of 2006 due to Vista, so they need to sell as many of them as they can between now and then. Launching earlier, rather than later gives a bigger window of opportunity, as Nvidia have shown with the G70.

The R580 is the only core that can be improved within the marchitecture, and appears to be, over the R520. Now next year, nvidia has hinted against going unified initially so that hints very strongly toward their next core, possibly a beast NV50, problably earlier then later especially if they can. Why would ATI use both cores against this single one, then go an entire year, or granted most of one, on just clock changes against the NV50? I dont think they can afford to let Nvidia get the lead in the OEM or enthusiast market that far until the R600. You'd be talking about 6-8months, basically a repeat of this year only worse.

 

[DemoCoder]

Well, the 110nm G70 is still a very new chip, I wouln't hold you breath for a 90nm shrink of G7x - at the nigh end, at least.

Such a shrink is imminent due to the scheduled PS3 requirements.

 

[Calavaro]

Look at the other side of what you are saying. If ATI bring out the R580 in Q2 06, it only has a life of 6-12 months before being replaced by R600 for Vista (a major inflection point). They may need R580 now in order to make up for the loss of sales from it arriving late and to regain the performance crown from Nvidia.

if they start selling R580 now and have nothing but a possible speedbump next Spring, well so what? It's all change at the end of 2006 due to Vista, so they need to sell as many of them as they can between now and then. Launching earlier, rather than later gives a bigger window of opportunity, as Nvidia have shown with the G70.

And MS has released an operating system "on time" since when?

Isn't the popular opinion that the r520 will be available in October? That would mean r580, at best, would be here March/April 06. If they want r600 to be out for the end year sales 06 toghether with Vista (if it actually would be avaialble), that would leave the r5xx series a very short shelf life.
Quite unlikely given that both ATI and nVidia has stated (iirc) they want to move away from these rapid refreshes and announcing new gen.

 

[Jawed]

Such a shrink is imminent due to the scheduled PS3 requirements.

But it's on Sony's process, not TSMC's.

And anyway, a 90nm implementation is not going to be a shrink at TSMC because 110nm is non-low-k and 90nm is low-k. etc. etc. There's no "shrink" here.

Jawed

 

[SugarCoat]

But it's on Sony's process, not TSMC's.

And anyway, a 90nm implementation is not going to be a shrink at TSMC because 110nm is non-low-k and 90nm is low-k. etc. etc. There's no "shrink" here.

Jawed

why would sony care about Nvidia's desktop cards? I'd think they'd want all fab plants dedicated to PS3 chips. They're going to need alot for launch obviously.

edit- infact, what makes people think otherwise. The RSX is under contract for sure, but why do people think now sony will also be taking Nvidia 90nm underwing this fast if at all. Was there a deal or contract i didnt read? I think Nvidia is going to need TSMC for desktop and that sony is seperate, they already have their hands full since they have to literally manufacture millions of working RSX just for the PS3, let alone taking on OEM and reseller orders. Doesnt make much sense.

 

[caboosemoose]

Such a shrink is imminent due to the scheduled PS3 requirements.

That chip is being made by Sony in Japan so its not entirely relevant.

 

[Jawed]

Well I was under the impression that Sony was going to be manufacturing RSX.

Isn't that the case? If so, then a 90nm G70/G71, erm whatever it'll be called, will need to be designed separately from RSX anyway.

Jawed

 

[DemoCoder]

The point being, the G70 (+XDR/FlexIO extensions) was ported to 90nm, period. There must be a commonality in work, because NVidia has moved between TSMC, UMC, and IBM in the past. Therefore, I do not expect Sony's 90nm process to be alien compared to TSMC, and therefore, the RSX work will help accelerate G70 90nm work, because if they encounter issues at that node, they will have learned from the experience for the G70 modulo any bugs TSMC has specific to their process. It does not require a redesign.

Finally, a little birdie whispered something to me...

 

[caboosemoose]

Well, given that Dave Orton has said, for instance, that RV515 on the one hand and RV530 and R520 on the other have given ATI very differnet experiences on 90nm, I'd say the fact that Sony is making a g70-ish chip on 90nm might not be much of a help to g70 at TSMC.

Who knows, really. It's impossible to say, but basically it feels way to soon to be talking about a 90nm shrink of G70, period.

 

[Mark]

Developped by a different team than the R520, the R580 should distinguish itself by a slightly different architecture than the former chip.

I find that notion ridiculous. The parts might be designed by different teams, but they are both part of the same company, they share the same resources and IP and have to follow the same design goals. It's not like they are independant of one another.

 

[trinibwoy]

Finally, a little birdie whispered something to me...

Well just say so. All the accompanying fluff was really unnecessary

 

[Kombatant]

I find that notion ridiculous. The parts might be designed by different teams, but they are both part of the same company, they share the same resources and IP and have to follow the same design goals. It's not like they are independant of one another.

I don't; I find it perfectly logical, especially since ATI's teams are not under the same roof. Sure they share some basic stuff, but they have differences. Think of it like having separate teams for programming versions of a said software package and you'll get the gist of it.

edit: I love it when I say exactly the opposite from what you say in every single forum

 

[trinibwoy]

edit: I love it when I say exactly the opposite from what you say in every single forum

I was just about to ask where all this rivalry came from You guys have been knocking heads for a couple days now.....

 

[Mark]

I don't; I find it perfectly logical, especially since ATI's teams are not under the same roof. Sure they share some basic stuff, but they have differences. Think of it like having separate teams for programming versions of a said software package and you'll get the gist of it.

edit: I love it when I say exactly the opposite from what you say in every single forum

Well that's a big waste of time. Imagine having 2 of your teams working on the exact same problems and not sharing their findings with each other. You'd hope they'd collaborate with each other all the time. I hope ATI's management isn't that dumb... though it would explain a lot I guess...

 

[Kombatant]

Well that's a big waste of time. Imagine having 2 of your teams working on the exact same problems and not sharing their findings with each other. You'd hope they'd collaborate with each other all the time. I hope ATI's management isn't that dumb... though it would explain a lot I guess...

Hence I said they share stuff, doh as far as I am aware it's a common practise everywhere, it accelerates development.

I was just about to ask where all this rivalry came from You guys have been knocking heads for a couple days now.....

Nah, no rivalry, I've got the Gaim logs to prove it

 

[Mark]

Hence I said they share stuff, doh as far as I am aware it's a common practise everywhere, it accelerates development.

well why'd you disagree with me first then... damn Greeks!

Nah, no rivalry, I've got the Gaim logs to prove it

Now hush, don't ruin it.

 

[rwolf]

Well that's a big waste of time. Imagine having 2 of your teams working on the exact same problems and not sharing their findings with each other. You'd hope they'd collaborate with each other all the time. I hope ATI's management isn't that dumb... though it would explain a lot I guess...

I am sure that they communicate very well with the exception of when they are working for different clients.

 

[ChrisRay]

I was just about to ask where all this rivalry came from You guys have been knocking heads for a couple days now.....

I dont see it as a rivalry between these two. I see 2 people with mutual respect for each other sharing their conflicting ideas.