Question for PS2 programmers (Fafalada, Archie... here pls)

[TTP]

This is gonna sound odd, but believe me it's true.

Get Winning Eleven 6 and pop it in a PS2 connected to a standard TV color. The game will run at a given speed.

Now...

Get Winning Eleven 6 and pop it in a PS2 connected to a *100HZ* TV color. The game will run faster. Players will run faster. The ball will move faster. Even the commentary seems to go a lill faster. The whole fucking game is like running on a differente engine. I have yet to chronometer it, but let's say a 5 mins match actually lasts 4 on a 100Hz TV.

How can you explain this?

Please bare in mind that upon hearing about this I was scheptical too untill I saw it with my own eyes. And no, it's not due to some kind of eye-trick/illusion triggered by the 100Hz.

So? Any explaination?

EDIT: Oh, forgot to add the same happens with NBA Street Vol. 2 (PS2 ver.)

 

[maskrider]

I am not a PS2 programmer but I don't think this is related to the PS2 at all.

The problem is from the video processor of the 100Hz TV than the PS2.

edit: And I suppose the same kind of PS2s (both US, both PAL or both Japanese) are being used on the different TVs.

edit1: After re-reading my reply, I don't know why I would have written it, ha ha, as No video processor that process signal near real-time will be able to accelerate the incoming video stream. May be Silent Hill 3 got me when I was typing the answer.

 

[TTP]

The problem is from the video processor of the 100Hz TV than the PS2.

Really? We are already in the distribuited CELL architecture age?
How can a chip in the TV affect the speed of the game? Not just the frame rate. We are talking about a match that last less on a 100Hz TV compared to a standard one. U actually see the seconds passing faster!

edit: And I suppose the same kind of PS2s (both US, both PAL or both Japanese) are being used on the different TVs.

Of course.

 

[Thowllly]

That is f*cking weird. Have you checked that the game is actually running at 50Hz on the 100Hz TV? Maybe it switches to 60Hz (120Hz for the TV) for some odd reason...

I can't imagine why, or how, it's happening, but the 5 -> 4 minute speedup is about what you'd expect from a 50 to 60 Hz speedup...

 

[Grall]

This is simply not possible. The console does NOT know what kind of TV set you got connected in the other end! It's like saying painting your car Ferrari red makes it go 300km/h...


*G*

 

[notAFanB]

congratualtions guys, you have just entered the third place........

 

[maskrider]

The problem is from the video processor of the 100Hz TV than the PS2.

Really? We are already in the distribuited CELL architecture age?
How can a chip in the TV affect the speed of the game? Not just the frame rate. We are talking about a match that last less on a 100Hz TV compared to a standard one. U actually see the seconds passing faster!

edit: And I suppose the same kind of PS2s (both US, both PAL or both Japanese) are being used on the different TVs.

Of course.

The PS2 will definitely not know what kind of TV it is connected to, and it will not even know if you have plugged anything to the AV mutli-out.

Have you also checked the settings of the game ?

Are you using the same game save for the game ?

I suppose you are using the same game disc.

Is your PS2 PAL or NTSC ?

 

[London Geezer]

FUNNY ENOUGH i tried something the other day that gave me the same result.
basically i have a Blaze Vga Adapter.
the thing (and the software included) makes PS2 switch to progressive scan (to put it simply).
the thing is, progressive scan is a 60Hz signal (actually a 59.3something but well).

so, a PAL game that usually runs at 50HZ runs at 60Hz when played through the VGA adapter. this can give u some weird results. i tried FIFA 2003 and it runs "beautifully" in pro-scan BUT insanely fast. almost unplayably fast.
i also tried Pro Evo and it does run faster, but not as fast as FIFA, its still playable.
pretty much every game designed in 50Hz will run faster when played through the Blaze Vga adapter. this can cause problems, for example, FFX runs ok in Pro-scan but the FMV cut scenes have the sound all messed up

to stay on topic, i really dont know why this whole thing happens to u.... guess i'm not helping much... somehow your ps2 is switching to 60Hz, that is pretty much the only explanation i can come up with... however i REALLY dont know how or why it does that on its own just by plugging it to a 100Hz TV... i used to have a (very sexy) Panasonic 36" 100Hz widescreen Tv and it never gave me those kind of results.... it did look good though

 

[Thowllly]

To everybody saying that the PS2 can't know what TV it's connected to: SCART connections has dedicated data lines to let the TV and connected device communicate. I (very very) seriously doubt the PS2 can do this, but it's not impossible.

 

[maskrider]

http://www.gamesx.com/avpinouts/psxav.htm

There is no pin for communication in AV multi-out.

 

[Thowllly]

ok, then it's not possible

 

[TTP]

i used to have a (very sexy) Panasonic 36" 100Hz widescreen Tv and it never gave me those kind of results.... it did look good though

Could you try it by yourself? Do you have both a standard 50Hz TV and a 100Hz one? Do you have Winnign Eleven 6? I'd really appreciate if you (or anyone else) try it out and report the results here.

I've been told about this 100Hz issue for some time and always dismissed it like some kind of illusion untill I got a chance to try it by myself, with my very own PS2 PAL system (obvioulsy modded) and my very own copy of the game on a 100Hz TV of a friend of mine. We were both speachless.

My friend now refuses to play the game on my TV preferring the faster "version" he uses to play on his 100Hz TV.

 

[London Geezer]

i used to have a (very sexy) Panasonic 36" 100Hz widescreen Tv and it never gave me those kind of results.... it did look good though

Could you try it by yourself? Do you have both a standard 50Hz TV and a 100Hz one? Do you have Winnign Eleven 6? I'd really appreciate if you (or anyone else) try it out and report the results here.

I've been told about this 100Hz issue for some time and always dismissed it like some kind of illusion untill I got a chance to try it by myself, with my very own PS2 PAL system (obvioulsy modded) and my very own copy of the game on a 100Hz TV of a friend of mine. We were both speachless.

My friend now refuses to play the game on my TV preferring the faster "version" he uses to play on his 100Hz TV.

GOT IT!!!

KEYWORD: CHIPPED PAL PS2...

your PS2 must be switching to NTSC mode when playing the game. my Ps2, being not chipped, never gave me this kind of results.
the only way u get the game to play faster is to play it at 60Hz which u can only do if:

1) there's an option in the game
2) u use the Blaze VGA Adaptor and the software included
3) there's something going on with your modded PS2....

No 3 would be your case i guess....

i'm such a genious....

 

[TTP]

GOT IT!!!

KEYWORD: CHIPPED PAL PS2...

your PS2 must be switching to NTSC mode when playing the game.

But... the game is already NTSC. As far as I know the console acts like it's NTSC when u feed it with NTSC software. That is, Winning Eleven 6 runs on my PAL system as it would on a native NTSC one.

And why does this happen only with Winning Eleven (and NBA Street 2, to my knowlage)? If it has something to do with the mod-chip, it should affect other games too.

 

[London Geezer]

ok

so, the ps2 is PAL and chipped.
the TV is PAL 100Hz, obviously compatible with 60Hz...
the game is NTSC 60Hz....

did u try the game on another TV? i guess u did and it did not give u those results.. u know what... i don't know...

the NTSC version should be faster then the PAL version of course, but the fact that u only see this on your 100HZ TV is weird.....

 

[Katsura]

PS2 hardware does not differ what region it's from,

on second thought, to be precise it probably does - depends on the local power supply and the electricity switch frequncy... but we are getting to twilight zone territory there... ie, a electric clock designed to run on 240V 60Hz supply will run faster if you feed it 110V 50Hz.

let's ignor this part first, a PS2 will behave whatever the booted software tell it to, the timing is software driven (unlike, say old hardware like the SNES), hence a chipped PAL PS2 running NTSC J software will behave just like a native NTSC PS2.

That being estabilished, the NTSC signal run at 60Hz (not quiet, 59.49?)

Emm, feed this signal to a PAL 60 TV which also has 100 Hz digital scan... heaven knows, my head is not clear at the mo, let me sleep on this one.

tell me about this TV? And the other TV you tested it on? ( the deducted info is the other 'sloer' TV also accepts PAL 60 signal, or a RGb 60Hz signal.

 

[Katsura]

AHA!!! A thought!!!

err, do you use a different power supply or power transformer when you use your PS2 at your friends and at your house? Or is his PS2 a NTSC and yours a PAL?

Theoretically if the PS2's PSU is different between NTSC and PAL (which they will) a NTSC PS2 may run that bit faster than a PAL one on the same PAl power supply using a step down converter.

This is all i can think of for now. Head, explode.

 

[maskrider]

AHA!!! A thought!!!

err, do you use a different power supply or power transformer when you use your PS2 at your friends and at your house? Or is his PS2 a NTSC and yours a PAL?

Theoretically if the PS2's PSU is different between NTSC and PAL (which they will) a NTSC PS2 may run that bit faster than a PAL one on the same PAl power supply using a step down converter.

This is all i can think of for now. Head, explode.

The PSU inside the PS2 outputs DC.

Region control is at the firmware and/or some other chip programmed for specific region.

 

[Katsura]

Yes, but the AC input frequency will affect the DC output and thus internal clock speed as well. A higher freq AC input will generate more DC ripple than a lower freq AC.

The region is part of the ROM data, which is irrelevant in this case.

 

[chaphack]

I blame the 100hz TV! It precache your subsequent frames and forces and blends them at almost double the framerates.