PS4 Pro Speculation (PS4K NEO Kaio-Ken-Kutaragi-Kaz Neo-san)

[Deleted member 11852]

I mean putting two new products in market at the same time that compete from same customer base doesn't sound like a good business decision.

This is true of all products by virtue that if a consumer wants two or more things but isn't able to afford them all then these products compete for the consumer's money. If the rumours are true (or even half true) then PS4K has been designed as a complimentary product to PSVR. It will work with your PS4 if you have one.

While I can't imagine Sony, their distributors or retaikl would welcome a dual PS4K/PSVR launch I would definitely welcome the chance to be able to pickup both together I wonder how many other non-PS4 are intertestred in PSVR but will wait until they can buy the more powerful PS4 console. Although I doubt that will impact Sony's ability to sell through it's launch allocation of PSVR units.

 

[kalelovil]

4K is so stupid and unnecessary in the consumer realm. I completely do not understand why Sony would risk one of their few profitable businesses just to try to bring back the TV business from the realm of the dead.

Marketing. I am reminded of the lead-up to the PS3's launch when Sony were heavily promoting it as the 1080P console.

Developers will continue to make rational trade-off decisions between various elements of visual fidelity, resolution included.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

I planted the seed already with my partner. I told her that it's possible that Sony are doing to release a "slimmer PS4" *ahem* by the end of the year and that it may work better with the (already preordered) VR headset.

She said that the kids can have the old PS4. I agreed with her quite brilliant idea.

Just hope the rumours are true now... and that Sony release a full PS4k with headset and controllers included.

 

[iroboto]

Maybe the PS4K is just the inclusion of the VR boxes internally to the main console? That way they dont need the external equipment pieces and can sell a slimmed down VR device, just the HMD.

Oddly enough it was the one thing I didn't think it would be lol. I don't think they are ready to release so many SKUS of VR just yet.

 

[function]

I think it'll be like the 360S with kinect, in that it'll have VR support built in and not require so much additional wireage.

That way, PS4K + PSVR bundles will be a lot simpler, but you can just as easily sell them without.

Still think a reveal before PSVR release, with hopefully availability around then (if they can make it) would be the best thing (again, like the 360S / Kinect).

 

[function]

VHS was superior to DVD, I know, I read it on the internet... (this archived article is a gem, please never let it die)
http://adequacy.org/stories/2001.8.24.112921.289.html

I think that article was a piss take.

"In a recent study by Brown University, one hundred students were shown a clip of the movie "Big Momma's House" ..."

"Finally, it's worth mentioning that all of these high-end sound formats such as "Dolby Digital 5.1" and "DTS" are pure junk. Scientists have demonstrated that the human brain is not capable of separating out more than four simultaneous sound channels at once."

Yeah, it's a piss take.

 

[wco81]

If it's about a streamlined setup for VR, why call it PS4K?

 

[function]

Because it also supports 4KBR and 4K 60hz. And please, god, adaptive sync too.

You can do more than one thing at once with a revision. And it makes sense to do both of these things, so hopefully they will.

Srsly Sny, adaptive sync. AMD are all about that. DO IT.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

If it's about a streamlined setup for VR, why call it PS4K?

Because Sony integrated the 4,000 PSVR cables into the console?

 

[turkey]

I think it'll be like the 360S with kinect, in that it'll have VR support built in and not require so much additional wireage.

That way, PS4K + PSVR bundles will be a lot simpler, but you can just as easily sell them without.

Still think a reveal before PSVR release, with hopefully availability around then (if they can make it) would be the best thing (again, like the 360S / Kinect).

perhaps this is why there was not enough hardware and the delay release, hoping to have bundles for Xmas,

 

[mpg1]

If Sony is releasing a more powerful PS4 the biggest question is it on 14nm or still 28nm? Personally I don't see how they could release a 14nm product this fall with AND only releasing their 14nm cards a 6 months prior.

 

[Rodéric]

If Sony is releasing a more powerful PS4 the biggest question is it on 14nm or still 28nm? Personally I don't see how they could release a 14nm product this fall with AND only releasing their 14nm cards a 6 months prior.

Really ?
I would think I'd like to know exactly what they are upgrading, how and what effect it will have... (Memory ? Bandwidth ? Additionnal GPU CU ? Overclocked CPU/GPU ? More CPU cores ? Other ? Will it consume more power ? Will it generate more heat ?)

 

[mpg1]

Really ?
I would think I'd like to know exactly what they are upgrading, how and what effect it will have... (Memory ? Bandwidth ? Additionnal GPU CU ? Overclocked CPU/GPU ? More CPU cores ? Other ? Will it consume more power ? Will it generate more heat ?)

I guess my point is if Sony is going to go to 14nm it would have to be next year not this year..right?

 

[Clukos]

I'd actually prefer it if instead of aiming for rendering higher res they would just run every 30 fps game at 60 fps (unlikely to be for every single game, more than likely it's harder than just flipping a switch and calling it a day) and every 60fps at native res.

 

[McHuj]

If Sony is releasing a more powerful PS4 the biggest question is it on 14nm or still 28nm? Personally I don't see how they could release a 14nm product this fall with AND only releasing their 14nm cards a 6 months prior.

I don't think 28nm is a viable option for a potentially upgraded PS4. It's an already huge chip with a fairly high powerdraw for a console of that size. I guess they could use TSMC's 28HPC+ process which could allow for higher clocks and maybe lower power, but I don't think its would be a huge boost.

I think 14nm is doable. Sure GPU's haven't shipped yet, but they will in the time frame and I don't expect the PS4K (if it indeed is an upgraded SOC) to really push the boundries of 14nm either. It would probably be something around ~225mm for the whole SOC.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I don't know how the manufacturing processes ramp up, but I can see how the volume of a device like Playstation would potentially escalate things vs low-volume parts like a high-end gpu. Depends on if the limit is in the quality of the process, the equipment to implement the process or if it's just the finances to build it to scale.

 

[loekf]

I think that article was a piss take.

"In a recent study by Brown University, one hundred students were shown a clip of the movie "Big Momma's House" ..."

"Finally, it's worth mentioning that all of these high-end sound formats such as "Dolby Digital 5.1" and "DTS" are pure junk. Scientists have demonstrated that the human brain is not capable of separating out more than four simultaneous sound channels at once."

Yeah, it's a piss take.

But you're too harsh.. you really miss the benefits of DTS-X and Dolby Atmos, where you have to install up firing speakers.

Honestly, the majority of the people just have a soundbar, because it's too much of an hassle to install discrete speakers in your living room and people's living rooms are not big enough to hear the impact of multiple directional speakers.

Atmos does the mixing of multiple discrete audio sources to the speakers set up in the amplifier, promising more accurate directional sound. I am already happy if I can hear a tie fighter move between my left and right ear and that my woofer has enough "oompf".

 

[loekf]

I don't think 28nm is a viable option for a potentially upgraded PS4. It's an already huge chip with a fairly high powerdraw for a console of that size. I guess they could use TSMC's 28HPC+ process which could allow for higher clocks and maybe lower power, but I don't think its would be a huge boost.

I think 14nm is doable. Sure GPU's haven't shipped yet, but they will in the time frame and I don't expect the PS4K (if it indeed is an upgraded SOC) to really push the boundries of 14nm either. It would probably be something around ~225mm for the whole SOC.

There's also TSMC 20nm process, which got used for the A8(X) SoC in the iPhone 6(s), iPad Air 2.

If it's just adding a 4K scaler, H.265 decoder, it's not a complete GPU revamp. UVD6 got added in the AMD Radeon R9 285. I think the PS4 is using UVD4. The Carrizo laptop APUs also have UVD6. Carrizo is at 20nm as well.

I would say that a 20 nm product takes at least 16 weeks to run through processing. Add some weeks for testing and packaging. I doubt about 16nm or even 14nm. Don't forget Apple, which takes lots of wafers. Not sure about TSMC's yield.

 

[orangpelupa]

But you're too harsh.. you really miss the benefits of DTS-X and Dolby Atmos, where you have to install up firing speakers.

Honestly, the majority of the people just have a soundbar, because it's too much of an hassle to install discrete speakers in your living room and people's living rooms are not big enough to hear the impact of multiple directional speakers.

Atmos does the mixing of multiple discrete audio sources to the speakers set up in the amplifier, promising more accurate directional sound. I am already happy if I can hear a tie fighter move between my left and right ear and that my woofer has enough "oompf".

Yeah the mixing logic really add to the soundstage.

If you use analogue surround sound, up to 7.1, Windows have built in matrix logic maker if you also have good quality mic.

On my optical surround sound, I used to fiddle with ffdshow audio matrix. It sounds great albeit a hassle to setup.

With Psvr, those problems are gone. Hopefully it also can use subwoofer for non-directonal oomph.

 

[Michellstar]

There's also TSMC 20nm process, which got used for the A8(X) SoC in the iPhone 6(s), iPad Air 2.

If it's just adding a 4K scaler, H.265 decoder, it's not a complete GPU revamp. UVD6 got added in the AMD Radeon R9 285. I think the PS4 is using UVD4. The Carrizo laptop APUs also have UVD6. Carrizo is at 20nm as well.

I would say that a 20 nm product takes at least 16 weeks to run through processing. Add some weeks for testing and packaging. I doubt about 16nm or even 14nm. Don't forget Apple, which takes lots of wafers. Not sure about TSMC's yield.

I think AMD scrapped 20nm for its Apus and GPUs, Carrizo still is at 28nm

Amd has shown working 14nm Polaris, they´re not that far off