PS4 Pro Speculation (PS4K NEO Kaio-Ken-Kutaragi-Kaz Neo-san)
- Thread starter mpg1
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Didn't Sony consider a better CPU option but were not sure if the extra cost was worth it? Maybe Sony could (fairly) easily switch to that option? Also, the whole MS rumour it 'target 5-6TF' so if might be only 5TF. I don't care TBH like many XBO fans have said this gen (like PS3 fans said last gen) - the gap doesn't matter to them...I think MS are putting too much into the power side when what they had wrong was the mandatory kinect and online. For my money they also lack the true exculsives.
The way I see this, sony should stick to its guns here.
I find it hard to see a next-gen or half-next-gen console succeeding next year. Consumers have just purchased their new consoles, and devs have just gotten started, no one is terribly eager to start this all over again. Specially if it is gonna be another slow start diminished-returns start like this one (I think it would be actually worse, both for being too early chronologically and for 1.8-6Tf being an even smaller leap)
If MS really releases a 5Tf console next year, it will still be a xbone 1.5 ms like it or not. It will be big and expensive, and starting from scratch with zero user-base. Devs just won't bother. They will brute-force whatever easier changes they can (increase frame rates and res) and call it a day. Thats enough to win digital foundry comparisons, not enough to sell tens of millions if consoles in my oppinion.
PS4k is in the same position really, bit if the rummors and speciation are true, it will cost about as much as a ps4 to manufacture, all componets can stay the same aside from the main apu, and even that can be used for vanilla ps4 units when deffective. Its would be such a huge economical win for sony. They could sell with a larger margin, and still be cheaper than xbox two, all while staying with a small quiet and ellegant machine.
I never thought they would sell it much like a better gfx machine. With a 2x differential, realistically we are talking about less fps dips, and a mild resolution-improvement + a 4k upscale. If they keep it like that, they don't really even enter the mad power competition against one two. Its just a "regular" ps4 that outputs at 4k, versus the diminishing returns expensive bulky 1.5 next-gen-wannabe beast.
The way I (a layman) see this market, gives me the feels such a battle is won by sony before it even starts.
Xbone Two would only confirm the narative that the One was underpowered and the impression that MS doesn't now what they are doing, and its high price will further cement xbox brand as niche. By the time the thing can start getting traction, sony can dreamcast it when a more substantial technological leap is feasible at an affordable price.
I find it hard to see a next-gen or half-next-gen console succeeding next year. Consumers have just purchased their new consoles, and devs have just gotten started, no one is terribly eager to start this all over again. Specially if it is gonna be another slow start diminished-returns start like this one (I think it would be actually worse, both for being too early chronologically and for 1.8-6Tf being an even smaller leap)
If MS really releases a 5Tf console next year, it will still be a xbone 1.5 ms like it or not. It will be big and expensive, and starting from scratch with zero user-base. Devs just won't bother. They will brute-force whatever easier changes they can (increase frame rates and res) and call it a day. Thats enough to win digital foundry comparisons, not enough to sell tens of millions if consoles in my oppinion.
PS4k is in the same position really, bit if the rummors and speciation are true, it will cost about as much as a ps4 to manufacture, all componets can stay the same aside from the main apu, and even that can be used for vanilla ps4 units when deffective. Its would be such a huge economical win for sony. They could sell with a larger margin, and still be cheaper than xbox two, all while staying with a small quiet and ellegant machine.
I never thought they would sell it much like a better gfx machine. With a 2x differential, realistically we are talking about less fps dips, and a mild resolution-improvement + a 4k upscale. If they keep it like that, they don't really even enter the mad power competition against one two. Its just a "regular" ps4 that outputs at 4k, versus the diminishing returns expensive bulky 1.5 next-gen-wannabe beast.
The way I (a layman) see this market, gives me the feels such a battle is won by sony before it even starts.
Xbone Two would only confirm the narative that the One was underpowered and the impression that MS doesn't now what they are doing, and its high price will further cement xbox brand as niche. By the time the thing can start getting traction, sony can dreamcast it when a more substantial technological leap is feasible at an affordable price.
Wait so the unofficial name for this unofficial potential platform is Xbox One Two?? 360>1>12? Wow. It's like the magic numbers in Lost.
Yeah it's pretty useless when you have a big chunk of power but can't code it exclusively for it while getting held back by legacy 1.3tf base machine. If Neo at 4.2tf could reach very high to ultra settings for multiplats at 1080p/30fps then it's job very well done in my book, a few more TFlops would get you 1440p perhaps with better AA or some more effects here and there but that's nothing significant in the scheme of things. Better to wait for a true next gen upgrade that leapfrogs the capabilities of current gen entirely and code exclusively with a say 9-10tf base, that's when we'll see something truly mind blowing again.
But that said I still encourage Sony to remain competitive power wise if it doesn't hurt them too much because why not, it's certainly not a necessity but would be interesting to see just what's possible. It's almost against Sony's nature to release something much weaker than the competitors judging by PS3 and PS4 gen.
But that said I still encourage Sony to remain competitive power wise if it doesn't hurt them too much because why not, it's certainly not a necessity but would be interesting to see just what's possible. It's almost against Sony's nature to release something much weaker than the competitors judging by PS3 and PS4 gen.
Agreed. Gamers should be buying for games. Though with this new Xbox it's possible it's being developed for the sole purpose of being VR capable. In which 6TF would be capable.
I could see why MS wanted to keep this Scorpio on the down low, VR games are still unproven, even if the hardware qualifies. If VR games don't pan out then the urgency is less.
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you say better to wait for the next gen 9-10tf machine, yet also say that the userbase won't be there for the mid cycle refresh to take advantage of them? How is that any different? Unless you don't believe it will be backwards/forwards compatible, that's the only difference I could see in the 2.0 machines. Why buy 2.0 when not gonna take big advantage of it compared to 1.5?
I expect that it will be rolling cycles from now on.
both sony and ms have talked like they may not do a 'next gen' machine.
I expect that it will be rolling cycles from now on.
both sony and ms have talked like they may not do a 'next gen' machine.
rockaman
Regular
I think they will continue to "refresh" also going forward. This would make the 2.0 or PS5 back compatible with PS4 and PS4 Neo.
But games won't be forward compatible from PS5 to PS4 I think, this will be the main separation (unlike the mid-generation refresh), otherwise it would probably hold PS5 games back too much (CPU would be very old and low-power by then).
This whole x86/PC-like stuff should make this all possible. And it would also mean if we upgrade to say PS4 Neo or PS5, we do not give up whole libraries of videogames.
That may have made sense in previous generations, but with the online-enabled gaming world and digital downloads, and online account systems, I think the way forward is continuing x86 + full backwards compatibility. The value proposition just becomes higher and higher for this with digital download world.
But games won't be forward compatible from PS5 to PS4 I think, this will be the main separation (unlike the mid-generation refresh), otherwise it would probably hold PS5 games back too much (CPU would be very old and low-power by then).
This whole x86/PC-like stuff should make this all possible. And it would also mean if we upgrade to say PS4 Neo or PS5, we do not give up whole libraries of videogames.
That may have made sense in previous generations, but with the online-enabled gaming world and digital downloads, and online account systems, I think the way forward is continuing x86 + full backwards compatibility. The value proposition just becomes higher and higher for this with digital download world.
What? It's not going to release with the name Xbox One Two. It's just what people are calling it around the office, probably as a joke.
Metal_Spirit
Regular
A possibility no doubt... Although I would not bet on that! All specs are just rumors and I'm betting on a new generation on 2017!
If AMD had a lot of solutions, it would be one thing, but they are very small, so I believe both consoles will be very similar.
The only way I see your scenario happening is if Microsoft is willing to loose a lot of money on the new console. If that happens, then what you are saying would be financially better for Sony since it would almost force Microsoft to loose money allong all the lifespan of the new console.
Well, selling the hardware at a loss doesn't necessarily mean they're going to lose money overall. Depends on how much money they pull in for software and services.
I've said this previously in a thread, so I do agree.
but the point is still why would they develop for a new machine with a small userbase when they can make a game that scale to both gens due to back compat if your only using userbase as a reason to not support something.
I think the mid cycle refreshes will be just fine, after 2-3years they will become the low end. That will basically equate to 4-6year life cycles.
games won't take full advantage until 2-3 years in, so not much of a change to how it's been
think it came from a Chinese translation, it was actually xbox 1 rev 2, for the slim but everyone ran with the initial translation of xbox 1 2
If we are to see these new mid-gen consoles to become the new 'norm' then I would expect at least 2 consoles to be supported but it would be nice to support 3 - if the hardware has this design in mind then it should be fairly easily supported much like a PC game where you can adjust the settings to run the game just that there would be presets.
I just don't see how they can convince consumers to buy an expensive new console just 4 years after the past one was launched when the output is gonna be so subtly better. Ps4 and one were a real 10x better than their predecessors and all we talked about when they released was diminishing returns and disapointment. How are they gonna make games look substantially better with an 1.5 kit while devs had just gotten their feet wet with the last architecture? I predict close to pathetic improvents.
I've been away [emoji56]
I don't know, we're talking about a nice upgrade and early adopters will always be there, not saying it'll be a big seller - I fully expect the PS4 to be the main seller, in the end I'd like to see 3 products on the market at any one time - in 4 years we could have the budget (PS4) mid-range (PSNeo) top-range (PSNext). Works with phones so why not consoles?
upnorthsox
Veteran
It's all about the tflops...
No, its about the results, and I don't see developers going any lenght to provide real diferentiating content for a new platform this early after a generational change. I'm thinking neo-geo, atari jaguar, 3do here. The long console cycles weren't invented arbitrarily by the industry. We've had dozens of in-betweens that failed.
The Geforce 1080 has Assync Compute problems... On some games using it, Fury X is not far, and it is old gen!
Holy cherry picking batman! And now back to reality:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_1080/26.html
The 1080 is on average 43% faster than the Fury-X in a wide selection of current generation games at the typical console resolution of 1080p.
And the Fury-X may be "old gen" but it's also an 8.6TF GPU connected to 512GB/s worth of HBM.
Yes, the (likely) Polaris 10 in the new xbox - if correct - is going to be quick, probably roughly in line with a Fury non-X, but let's not pretend it's on par with the fastest PC GPU available, which won't be the fastest PC GPU available by that point anyway.
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