PS4 Pro Speculation (PS4K NEO Kaio-Ken-Kutaragi-Kaz Neo-san)

[orangpelupa]

I wonder how Sony can encourage developers to make awesome ps4k games while making sure it's also still works fine on older ps4.

Nintendo has been doing this mid-way upgrade and they keeps failing doing that. It's either the game became new console exclusive or the game will run with really low fps on old console.

Btw I don't understand how they can can extra 512 MB of memory.

Maybe ps4k actually have two OS or at least two libraries?

Sony hit a wall in optimizing PS OS. So they make a new one, much leaner, for ps4k.

 

[upnorthsox]

So Tonga or Polaris based?

I don't think it can be a simple doubling of the existing GPU since the bandwidth didn't scale up. It has to be a more BW efficient GPU. So is it worth the effort to shrink something like Tonga to 14nm or just use existing Polaris 10?

I think it would be pretty compelling for both Sony and AMD to use the new GPU.

As DF said, there isn't a 36 CU Tonga so that'd rule it out pretty much.

 

[upnorthsox]

I wonder how Sony can encourage developers to make awesome ps4k games while making sure it's also still works fine on older ps4.

Nintendo has been doing this mid-way upgrade and they keeps failing doing that. It's either the game became new console exclusive or the game will run with really low fps on old console.

Btw I don't understand how they can can extra 512 MB of memory.

Maybe ps4k actually have two OS or at least two libraries?

Sony hit a wall in optimizing PS OS. So they make a new one, much leaner, for ps4k.

My feeling is that this is a misunderstanding and that both will get the memory boost, it's just coinciding with the Neo release as they now know how much they can release.

 

[Love_In_Rio]

Wow I just caught up to the flurry.
Just a note to those disappointed with specs - I wouldn't take those as final. IIRC (looking at Durango) most of these developer boxes come with hardware that is around spec, but may not be. So in particular this Jaguar processor, could very well be something else, but in the meantime for alpha kits could be a Jag.

That being said, it's definitely happening, pretty excited for this years E3 - the internet has exploded slightly and that's always entertaining.

Right, one of the firsts PS4 devkit had 8xBulldozer at 1,6 GHz.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

As DF said, there isn't a 36 CU Tonga so that'd rule it out pretty much.

What about 40? Because PS4's APU has 20 CUs with two CUs disabled to improve yields.

 

[McHuj]

As DF said, there isn't a 36 CU Tonga so that'd rule it out pretty much.

If it's indeed Polaris based, I would expect the performance gap between the two PS4's to be fairly big (bigger than what two ducted taped PS4 would be).

 

[upnorthsox]

What about 40? Because PS4's APU has 20 CUs with two CUs disabled to improve yields.

Tonga is 32 CUs, and beside that you'd still need to redo it in a 14nm FF design. Why do that when you already have a Polaris design done in 14nm FF.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I am still bummed by the mild CPU overclock. They really can't overclock it a little bit higher even at 16nm? I was expecting like 2.5ghz.

Which developer(s) is(are) complaining about lack of CPU performance on the PS4?
Honest question, because it seems to me the only reason they increased CPU clock is because it came "for free".

Other than serving the upgraded GPU, there would be little reason to increase CPU performance, since CPU-driven gameplay tasks (A.I., physics, number of objects in screen, etc.) would always need to be 100% done on the Base model too.
Developers are not authorized to touch on gameplay features for the new(o) version, just image quality. They can't e.g. make a GTA VI with higher populated areas for one console than the other. And rightly so.

I am only a fanboy of the best tech

Like 720p TVs...

Nobody cares about your Xmas shopping plans. Really. Nobody cares.

How about Summer shopping plans? I was thinking about creating a thread about the neatest swimming trunks.

 

[Karamazov]

 

[mpg1]

I wonder how Sony can encourage developers to make awesome ps4k games while making sure it's also still works fine on older ps4.

Read the giantbomb article: http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/sources-the-upgraded-playstation-4-is-codenamed-ne/1100-5437/

It talks about how Sony has some guidelines about how games should be optimized on the new system.

 

[Clukos]

First 30 minutes are related to this topic, good discussion, can't say I disagree.

 

[mpg1]

If it's indeed Polaris based, I would expect the performance gap between the two PS4's to be fairly big (bigger than what two ducted taped PS4 would be).

I'm basically expecting 1440p vs 900p in some cases.

 

[wco81]

So will the new GPU have a good 4K scaler?

If they can still hit $399 with improved performance, HDMI 2 and UHD Blu Ray, it would be pretty compelling.

People are paying $400-500 for UHD Blu Ray players now.

Just make phone apps to control the movie playback though, they need to offer something better than the DS for disc playback.

 

[Scott_Arm]

PS4 Neo will still target 1080p for games, because that's the vast majority of tvs that are out there. The next jump would be 4k because primarily consoles are connected to tvs. Targetting 1440p, or other PC resolutions, would be a waste of time.

 

[Scott_Arm]

First 30 minutes are related to this topic, good discussion, can't say I disagree.

Listening a bit. I don't think people understand the difference between supporting two platforms (Xbox One vs PS4) and two PS4 versions using the same architecture that are forwards/backwards compatible and would run the same code/executables for both OS and games.

 

[Rurouni]

I wonder how Sony can encourage developers to make awesome ps4k games while making sure it's also still works fine on older ps4.

Making it awesome first on PS4 and turn everything to 11 on PS4K.
1080p on PS4? 4K on PS4K. Don't have 4K tv, great, enjoy your VSR. Not enough? Remember those PC extreme settings that seems to only slightly improve image quality but cost a lot of fps? Now you can have that extreme quality for free (compared to PS4 of course)!
Still got left over CU? Don't worry, just throw moar particles. More silky smooth hair, tressfx for mustache, beard, and eyebrows and even nose hair!

 

[mpg1]

I wondering how more casual gamers will take this. I get a sense from /r/ps4 comments that some are basically in denial that this is happening....it's sort of funny.

I remember the outrage of the Xbox One and drm/physical discs. I thought that reaction was overblown.

I think a lot of console gamers like things kept simple...Sony revealing a different more powerful PS4 will probably cause confusion among people who are not into the tech side of things.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Making it awesome first on PS4 and turn everything to 11 on PS4K.
1080p on PS4? 4K on PS4K. Don't have 4K tv, great, enjoy your VSR. Not enough? Remember those PC extreme settings that seems to only slightly improve image quality but cost a lot of fps? Now you can have that extreme quality for free (compared to PS4 of course)!
Still got left over CU? Don't worry, just throw moar particles. More silky smooth hair, tressfx for mustache, beard, and eyebrows and even nose hair!

Yep. Make it run rock solid on PS4 and then scale the graphics up on PS4 Neo. It will literally be the same CPU and GPU architecture and the same SDK and the same executable. So I won't say that it's easy, but it's nothing like supporting two different architectures. Optimize the base model like crazy and everything that you get out of the Neo model is a cherry on top.

 

[liolio]

More and more noise about increased specs have me considering it more seriously. My though is that it is a risky move but as Zuckenberg stated it... my second one looking at the costs associated with that (from Sony side to outside) is that the forecast about where the Xb1/Ps4 is heading as far are sell are concerned is not as rosy as the story early sales of those systems are saying. My third one is that Sony made the choices of a more profitable niche vs volume. My fourth thought is that neither the P4 or Xb1 will reach really low prices which open the door for a decent lower system, that may not make more money , somehow less actually but that capitalize on volume as I beleive there is room a more vanilla console experience

 

[mpg1]

PS4 Neo will still target 1080p for games, because that's the vast majority of tvs that are out there. The next jump would be 4k because primarily consoles are connected to tvs. Targetting 1440p, or other PC resolutions, would be a waste of time.

Could render at 1440p and output at 1080p no?