PS4 Pro Speculation (PS4K NEO Kaio-Ken-Kutaragi-Kaz Neo-san)

[onQ]

Except that would not give them HDMI2.0, HDR, HDCP2+ and hardware-based H265 encoding/decoding. They HAVE to add that, so they cannot simply shrink PS4 APU... and since they have to tweak APU, why not add Puma+ and more CUs/Polaris module...

I bet It's an secondary GPU that will have all the updated stuff.

 

[onQ]

It's actually this reason why I don't believe it would be native 4K gaming. If we are being realistic, like truly realistic, technically achievable, but business wise, with so few owning 4K sets, it's hard to believe that they would release a device specifically for that market so early.

I get putting in support to upscale to 4K or something of the sort, but outside of that hard to really imagine a console achieving parity performance with a r290 card without busting the power envelope or being excessively expensive.

Maybe they are able to add a 2nd chip for compute & so on & at 14nm that's half the size of the GPU that's in the console now but just as power + higher clocked & able to do 4tflops 1/2 precision at a cheap price.

 

[iroboto]

Maybe they are able to add a 2nd chip for compute & so on & at 14nm that's half the size of the GPU that's in the console now but just as power + higher clocked & able to do 4tflops 1/2 precision at a cheap price.

I guess for me, it's not so much the technical aspect of it; lets just assume they can do it. The real question is why, like, as in, why now. Why is releasing a 4K native device so critical today? Even in the PC space resolutions are moving to 1440p, most are still held at 1080p. 1440p is still a far cry from 4K.
What percentage of users own a 4K set?

From a business perspective, it just doesn't make sense to me. You could release a more powerful PS4 that isn't 4K native, and still rock the games department. And when 4K is a requirement choose the technologies to support it then, when it's actually much cheaper and much more mainstream. Why do something so far ahead of it's time?

 

[Globalisateur]

I guess for me, it's not so much the technical aspect of it; lets just assume they can do it. The real question is why, like, as in, why now. Why is releasing a 4K native device so critical today? Even in the PC space resolutions are moving to 1440p, most are still held at 1080p. 1440p is still a far cry from 4K.
What percentage of users own a 4K set?

From a business perspective, it just doesn't make sense to me. You could release a more powerful PS4 that isn't 4K native, and still rock the games department. And when 4K is a requirement choose the technologies to support it then, when it's actually much cheaper and much more mainstream. Why do something so far ahead of it's time?

Sony always tried to be ahead of its time with home media tech. Even the first Playstation... somehow:

- Playstation 1 : reads CD music -> moderate hype
- Playstation 2 : reads DVD videos -> hype intensifies
- Playstation 3 : reads Bluray videos -> hype but 599$ though
- Playstation 4 : reads Bluray videos -> hype is dead...wut?
- Playstation 4K: reads 4K videos -> hype is back, Kaz is happy.

 

[onQ]

I guess for me, it's not so much the technical aspect of it; lets just assume they can do it. The real question is why, like, as in, why now. Why is releasing a 4K native device so critical today? Even in the PC space resolutions are moving to 1440p, most are still held at 1080p. 1440p is still a far cry from 4K.
What percentage of users own a 4K set?

From a business perspective, it just doesn't make sense to me. You could release a more powerful PS4 that isn't 4K native, and still rock the games department. And when 4K is a requirement choose the technologies to support it then, when it's actually much cheaper and much more mainstream. Why do something so far ahead of it's time?

It actually make more sense from a business perspective.

Just think of what would have happened if Nintendo would have released Wii HD in 2009 it would have prolonged Nintendo's winning streak & wouldn't have given PS3 & Xbox 360 the chance to get some of the casual market. PS4 is now running with the crown & a move like this will keep MS & Nintendo from having a chance to catch up or win back the market. The value of PS4 stays up & devs don't have to reset with a small instill base.

 

[iroboto]

My Google-Fu

4K-capable TVs will be in 10% of all North American households by year-end 2018. We forecast that this number will reach 50% by the end of 2024, just 10 years from now.

That report was written in 2014 by business insider.

Let's also discuss dpi per foot. Are we really going to see a huge market of sub 50" tv screens that are 4K? That's like claiming you can see resolution differences between iPhones and sumsung 5 feet away. I doubt most people can possibly and reasonable identify where the image quality is different at that distance.

Then comes the non North American markets, I never knew EU and Asia to be big on large screen TVs. Correct me if I'm wrong but they generally have less space to work with.

So I'm a bit confused as to why a company would invest in developing Native 4K capable hardware in a console form factor today, when 50% of house holds will have 4K in 2024, why is not waiting more years a better business option.

Your responses compared to the data I'm looking at aren't compelling to me. Not to say that it's wrong but it's not convincing.

 

[onQ]

My Google-Fu

That report was written in 2014 by business insider.

Let's also discuss dpi per foot. Are we really going to see a huge market of sub 50" tv screens that are 4K? That's like claiming you can see resolution differences between iPhones and sumsung 5 feet away. I doubt most people can possibly and reasonable identify where the image quality is different at that distance.

Then comes the non North American markets, I never knew EU and Asia to be big on large screen TVs. Correct me if I'm wrong but they generally have less space to work with.

So I'm a bit confused as to why a company would invest in developing Native 4K capable hardware in a console form factor today, when 50% of house holds will have 4K in 2024, why is not waiting more years a better business option.

Your responses compared to the data I'm looking at aren't compelling to me. Not to say that it's wrong but it's not convincing.

I have a 43" 4K TV & it look way better than the 1080P TVs & monitors I'm used to seeing even when it's playing upscale 1080P content. one of the points of having 4K is that you can get closer to your TV & see more details so people who have 27" - 32" 1080P monitors & TVs today can be the people who have 43" 4K TVs in the same space but they get a even better view & they can see it better even when they are not in their sweet spot.

 

[turkey]

My Google-Fu

That report was written in 2014 by business insider.

Let's also discuss dpi per foot. Are we really going to see a huge market of sub 50" tv screens that are 4K? That's like claiming you can see resolution differences between iPhones and sumsung 5 feet away. I doubt most people can possibly and reasonable identify where the image quality is different at that distance.

Then comes the non North American markets, I never knew EU and Asia to be big on large screen TVs. Correct me if I'm wrong but they generally have less space to work with.

So I'm a bit confused as to why a company would invest in developing Native 4K capable hardware in a console form factor today, when 50% of house holds will have 4K in 2024, why is not waiting more years a better business option.

Your responses compared to the data I'm looking at aren't compelling to me. Not to say that it's wrong but it's not convincing.

IHS has bigger predictions

IHS : December 10, 2015 :

By the end of 2017, most 50-inch-and-larger TVs worldwide will feature 4K resolution, according to IHS Inc. (NYSE: IHS), the leading global source of critical information and insight. With its comparatively strong economy and consumer penchant for large-screen TVs, 4K TV household penetration in the United States will reach 34 percent in 2019.

4K TV household penetration in the European Union is expected to reach 25 percent in 2019. Growing availability of UHD content from Internet and pay-TV providers will support this trend. Switzerland is expected to reach 32 percent penetration in 2019, followed closely by the United Kingdom at 31 percent.

So more tv sets and as you say 50 inches sets brought are most likely to be 4k.

The eu is not as quick with huge tvs, probably due to the housing stock which may have odd walls in the living room (chimney breast).

That is a lot of 4k tvs, if we assume the affluent end and probably younger end of the population are probably driving this trend. This could. Mean percentage of console owners in this category is far higer.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Then comes the non North American markets, I never knew EU and Asia to be big on large screen TVs. Correct me if I'm wrong but they generally have less space to work with.

That's not such an issue with super-thin flat screens. That's actually where 4k is most important - a massive screen a few feet away in a tiddly European living room, filling the FOV for a cinematic experience.

 

[Grall]

It could also potentially deliver 6 Tflops with perfect binning, nitrogen cooling and quadrupling of clocks.

6TFlops and nitrogen cooling double confirmed!

 

[orangpelupa]

My Google-Fu

That report was written in 2014 by business insider.

Let's also discuss dpi per foot. Are we really going to see a huge market of sub 50" tv screens that are 4K? That's like claiming you can see resolution differences between iPhones and sumsung 5 feet away. I doubt most people can possibly and reasonable identify where the image quality is different at that distance.

Then comes the non North American markets, I never knew EU and Asia to be big on large screen TVs. Correct me if I'm wrong but they generally have less space to work with.

So I'm a bit confused as to why a company would invest in developing Native 4K capable hardware in a console form factor today, when 50% of house holds will have 4K in 2024, why is not waiting more years a better business option.

Your responses compared to the data I'm looking at aren't compelling to me. Not to say that it's wrong but it's not convincing.

doesn't people buy whatever TV have the most bling, interesting marketing, cheap price, and bigger size? The marketers even doesn't care with the visual quality itself (they often use 240p youtube or VCD on huuuuuuge 4K TV). Those smart tv also never connected to network.

my understanding is that, people that properly research TV before buying is in the minority.

if PS4K can push the 4K hype to more people, it means more money for sony's ecosystem and generally the 4K and BD ecosystem.

about room size, dunno about in all of Asia, but Indonesia is a place that is full of huge houses, and small apartment rooms. Students usually have small rooms, although rich students usually have huge house bought by their parents to be rented to other students. Some rich people buy small apartment in the middle of the city, some other also have huge house a bit far away (or on another city altogether). There's also filthy rich people with huge houses in premium city areas.

the weird thing is, its also hard to say that entertainment only consumed by rich people. Generally Indonesia have big consumption power. Even poor people buy expensive stuff, that logically, they doesn't need it. But they want it. and they are willing to sacrifice essential stuff, get into long credit, to get those luxury items.

hmm, I wonder, is that the reason PSN Indonesia almost never have sale

 

[goonergaz]

Sony always tried to be ahead of its time with home media tech. Even the first Playstation... somehow:

- Playstation 1 : reads CD music -> moderate hype - also had a VCD add-on
- Playstation 2 : reads DVD videos -> hype intensifies
- Playstation 3 : reads Bluray videos -> hype but 599$ though (which was cheap for a BR player)
- Playstation 4 : reads Bluray videos -> hype is dead...wut?
- Playstation 4K: reads 4K videos -> hype is back, Kaz is happy.

corrected?

 

[Akumajou]

Hmm it's not just HDMI 2.0+ that Sony would need to upgrade along with a speed/update CPU/GPU overhaul and 14nm FinFet...

They need SATA3 interface with a proper controller too.

12GB GDDR5 sounds nice...how about 16GB instead while we're at it?

Would HMB be feasible? Need exclusive titles.

 

[DieH@rd]

PS4K needs to be upgrade that plays every PS4 game, not a new gen console.

 

[Mobius1aic]

PS4K won't just be about 4K content output, the extra performance will make for a better Playstation VR experience which I think is an as-important component to the reasoning for a "PS4K" as 4K content is. 4K capability also makes for an easy naming scheme.

I think it's completely feasible for the PS4K APU to be the consumer debut of AMD's Zen CPU core. Even without multithreading taken into account, Zen can already more than match two Jaguar cores per clock (actually should match 3 Jaguar cores in IPC, 4x Jaguar cores in SIMD). Couple that with a decent clock speed in the mid 2-GHz range with 4 Zen cores and you have a good replacement for the 8 Jaguar cores with a substantial increase in overall performance. Targeting current-PS4 visuals with a 1080p/60 FPS presentation makes sense, but has to be accomplished by a substantial increase in CUs and possibly an appropriate bump in memory bandwidth unless GCN 4 is used and manages to attain Maxwell-like bandwidth efficiency. 1792 SPs a la a cut down Tahiti or Tonga with a 1000 MHz clock would give us the doubling of graphics GFLOPS and texturing output. Tonga only has 32 ROPS like Pitcairn and it's PS4 brethren but IIRC, AMD's ROPS are not blocked like the CUs and Textures are. AMD could just double them.

 

[London Geezer]

PS4K needs to be upgrade that plays every PS4 game, not a new gen console.

I'd risk predicting that - if this is all actually happening, we don't know anything yet! - ps5 will also be like that.. That the whole model should completely change if they want to support 3-year generations.

 

[goonergaz]

I'd risk predicting that - if this is all actually happening, we don't know anything yet! - ps5 will also be like that.. That the whole model should completely change if they want to support 3-year generations.

yes, I said earlier I think they are going to an apple/pc style upgrade path (by pc I mean a set pc rather than upgardable parts) so PS4 to PS5.5 games will all work then drop support of PS4 with PS6 release

 

[onQ]

I'd risk predicting that - if this is all actually happening, we don't know anything yet! - ps5 will also be like that.. That the whole model should completely change if they want to support 3-year generations.

But it's not really a new generation it's still the PS4

 

[Prophecy2k]

But it's not really a new generation it's still the PS4

Lets hope this is true

 

[Prophecy2k]

yes, I said earlier I think they are going to an apple/pc style upgrade path (by pc I mean a set pc rather than upgardable parts) so PS4 to PS5.5 games will all work then drop support of PS4 with PS6 release

This would be awful...

This implies that PS5 and PS5.5 games need to work on PS4, which could end up being something like 4-6 times less powerful. So games will be held back by sh!tty Jaguar CPU cores for the next 6 years... bleeergh!!!!

It's the very definition of having new HW merely for the sake of new HW, as no games that want to have a hope of commercial success will actually be able to take any advantage of that new HW. It's a PC with none of the benefits