[PS3] Uncharted 2

Ostepop said:
Lag hiding is good if you like your games to be determined by randomness. More clever lag hiding, more randomness (usually). But yeah, going by the average online players skill, i guess randomness is more fun than getting shot in the head by me :p

If you like to be rewarded for your skill, Lag hiding sucks PERIOD. (get better connections instead)

If i wanted to play a game thats determined by randomness i might aswell play yatzy.
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I respectfully dissagree, i think ill leave it at that :LOL:
 
Ive only started to play it tonite but it seems to be lot of fun (kinda how i thought MGO would of worked out), just watching Arwin play he's a lol better then me lol....
 
To be clear, I am talking about controller lag rather than netcode lag. The latter will vary from person to person and will be difficult to detect owing to client-side prediction. The former will be virtually identical to everyone, with the latency of the display being the only variable there.
 
Wow, that montage is seriously excellent. I'm ashamed to say I haven't really been paying attention to the game, other than nowing it looked good. I thought the MP would be all about gunplay, but being able to stealth kill and do that pull down move on the ledge looks great :D

Can't wait until the 29th!
 
Ostepop said:
I completely understand that if you SUCK at online shooters, this might not be a big deal for you. Infact you might enjoy the game more, as your chances of killing people increases (because of randomness with unpredictable lag).
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No one is arguing that lag hiding doesn't come with drawbacks - you're absolutely right in pointing those ones out. On the other hand, playing online while lag-hiding is just as frustrating as the player with lag will be warping from one spot to the other, while making it practically impossible to kill him. While you're wondering where he's warped to now, you'll already be dead.

I don't need to point out that lag has been exploited many times to cheat for exactly this reason too. Lag-hiding doesn't solve this, but I'd much rather have double-kills than lots of deaths due to playing people with lots of lag.

And no, I don't suck at online shooters. ;)
 
Shifty Geezer said:
Virtually identical, which is surprising for a JPEG!
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But then the shots are in night time with many dark areas and limited colored surfaces. When I take screenshots having a night type screenshot uses far less disk space yet retains same jpg compression quality as a day shot with more colors and detail visible/pronounced. Ofcourse the day shot is significantly bigger in size vs night shot for same jpg compression quality.
 
Phil said:
No one is arguing that lag hiding doesn't come with drawbacks - you're absolutely right in pointing those ones out. On the other hand, playing online while lag-hiding is just as frustrating as the player with lag will be warping from one spot to the other, while making it practically impossible to kill him. While you're wondering where he's warped to now, you'll already be dead.
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Actually. This only holds if you have P2P netcode. Serverside netcode = lag only sucks for the lagger, not for the others. note: serverside does not imply dedicated server.

If the netcode is serverside (one player is hosting, everybody connects to this player, or a dedicated server) , other players lag does not impact you in anyway, because the rules of the game are set by the host.

This means that the host determines what happends, based on at what time the information reaches the host.

Ex: lets say i have 1 ms ping to the host, host is not bottlenecked by upload\download limits (he has sufficient speeds).

If i shot, that shot will take 1 ms to register with the host. Now if you have 1000ms ping, that shot will take 1 sec to register with the host. This only sucks for the laggy player (1 sec ping).

Its irrelevant for me. Why?

Because the server sends the information to the other players, regarding what is happening where players are etc. This in term determines what you see on your screen.

So.

If i see you and shot you, my shot will take 1 ms to register with the server, and you will be dead in the eyes of the server after 1 ms. Now, even if you have already shot me or if you have moved to another location, this is irrelevant because unless your updated information regarding movement\action reaches the server before me, server has already determined that you are dead.

Also, you the laggy player will recieve information regarding where other players are on a big delay. In turn, you will shoot at players based on not updated information, this is irrelevant for the other players, because the server determines what is "reality" in the game world. You can shoot at me, but im not there anymore in the eyes of the server, however the server and the players who dont have lag to the server, will know where you and what your doing at all times (in the eyes of the server, and the eyes of the server = the reality of the online game).

Only with serverside netcodes that try to hide lag will this ever be a problem.

If you play PC games online you will notice this. Players with bad lag will be very easy targets because they will be shooting at stuff that isn't there anymore (delayed information), whereas me with 20ms ping will shoot you based on where you are 20 ms ago.

Same reason why hosts allways have advantage in serverside based netcodes as what they see is the gaming reality, but what you see is the gaming reality X ms ago.
 
Ostepop,

Ostepop said:
If the netcode is serverside (one player is hosting, everybody connects to this player, or a dedicated server) , other players lag does not impact you in anyway, because the rules of the game are set by the host.
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Of course it does. Any player that joins with a laggy connection influences the battle-field around them. For one, players are distracted by it, because they can't get a clean hit on him.

Ostepop said:
If i see you and shot you, my shot will take 1 ms to register with the server, and you will be dead in the eyes of the server after 1 ms. Now, even if you have already shot me or if you have moved to another location, this is irrelevant because unless your updated information regarding movement\action reaches the server before me, server has already determined that you are dead.
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It's not that simple unfortunately. Your shot may have registered within 1ms, but in most games where you require a few more hits than just 1 or 2 shots like in Call of Duty, you will see your target jump from one location to the other, as the server receives the updated information on his where-abouts. While you're hopelessly trying to down him as he respawn at his updated location, he may already be well firing at you, possibly even killing you in the process (remember, it may only be his upload that's causing lag, so he'll be receiving up-to-date positions on YOUR where abouts). So while he might see everything fluid and will be happy firing at you, there's a good chance he might be getting more hits (despite his upload lag) than you are while desperately trying to chase his shadow.

There's also a difference between if a player has say 100ms lag or 1000ms of lag. While the latter isn't really a problem (those are the ones you see firing at targets that aren't there anymore), the former are the ones that are jumping from spot to spot playing the game in slow-motion.

I think we can agree that it would be best to just kick everyone with a subpar internet connection, but that probably doesn't seem likely or possible in the console realm. "Lag hiding" is not the definitive solution, but it is a solution that at least makes the experience beneficial to most with fewer drawbacks.
 
Ostepop said:
If you play PC games online you will notice this. Players with bad lag will be very easy targets because they will be shooting at stuff that isn't there anymore (delayed information), whereas me with 20ms ping will shoot you based on where you are 20 ms ago.
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Practically all PC-Shooters have prediction and lag-compensation (I couldn' t tell one exception from the rule). If this werent the case, then the server would continuously correct your own position and your view would shudder terrible if that happens, even with a relatively nice ping.

Instead the server predicts where the players heading until it gets the next information and then corrects the position. Which means teleporting if the lag is bad enough.

The only variable is where the hits get registered, some games do this on the server which ensures atleast a consistent state, even if that means delayed deaths. Others allow clients for registering hits (was hyped as zero-lag for a while), means you hit where you shoot - but this is actually horrible as you could just unplug your networkcable, run up to now uncontrolled players in your own simulation and shoot them. Then plug back the cable and the server notes the damage you did.
 
Npl said:
but this is actually horrible as you could just unplug your networkcable, run up to now uncontrolled players in your own simulation and shoot them. Then plug back the cable and the server notes the damage you did.
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Shouldnt doing that kick you out of the game?
 
Npl said:
The only variable is where the hits get registered, some games do this on the server which ensures atleast a consistent state, even if that means delayed deaths. Others allow clients for registering hits (was hyped as zero-lag for a while), means you hit where you shoot - but this is actually horrible as you could just unplug your networkcable, run up to now uncontrolled players in your own simulation and shoot them. Then plug back the cable and the server notes the damage you did.
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Client registering hits is definately the worse.

Shouldnt doing that kick you out of the game?
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Instead of unplugging your cable, just turn on bittorrent and start uploading. same effect ;)
Works well in KZ2 and other games with this
 
My god, has it suddenly become fashionable to leave the game halfway through. Three games in row ended by the host leaving. That or there is a bug causing this. It would have been nice if you could at least keep the points you gathered at that point.

After killzone 2, Uncharted 2 seems to be another game that's hosted on PS3. Maybe Sony has stopped shelling out for the kind of dedicated servers Rfom used, or can every first party choose whatever method they want to use? From my perspective it feels like first party games are progressively getting worse with lag and connection problems.
 
MAG is dedicated server.

[size=-2]I should bug GameStop for my U2 code today[/size]

EDIT: U2 should find an alternate host when the current one goes away. I thought NaughtyDog said they are using some sort of cloud computing in U2 ?

Btw, I went online from several locations in the bay area yesterday and the day before. There seemed to be a wide area connectivity problem beginning the night before (Slow Internet, lost connection from my office and from home too). It seems to be fixed now.
 
patsu said:
MAG is dedicated server.

[size=-2]I should bug GameStop for my U2 code today[/size]

EDIT: U2 should find an alternate host when the current one goes away. I thought NaughtyDog said they are using some sort of cloud computing in U2 ?
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From what i have seen the game only migrates hosts in non deathmatch games. dont have a clue why.


gamesradar have given U2 10/10

"Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. It looks amazing, plays like a dream and the voice-acting/story-telling will hook you in right from the off. PS3 officially has it’s a killer-app..."

Review has been taken down from the site now though...

EDIT: oops, didnt read ultragpu's post
 
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