[PS3] Metal Gear Solid 4 *spoilers*

Alternative universe? Based upon who's authority? Alot of the storyline of MGS4 is setup and revealed in Portable Ops. Zero, Ocelot and Big Boss involvement in the establishment of the Patriots, how the Philospher's legacy ends up in the Patriots' hands, the origin of Gray Fox and the formation of Foxhound all take place in Portable Ops.

I think the easiest explanation is duty. Maybe Big Boss did recruit Gray Fox and Campbell, but their duty was to his government and so both even went up against Big Boss in MG1. It's one of those big Metal Gear themes, especially after MGS3.

I'm not necessarily saying that that's what Kojima planned, but if you want an explanation I guess it sorta works.
 
Alternative universe? Based upon who's authority? Alot of the storyline of MGS4 is setup and revealed in Portable Ops. Zero, Ocelot and Big Boss involvement in the establishment of the Patriots, how the Philospher's legacy ends up in the Patriots' hands, the origin of Gray Fox and the formation of Foxhound all take place in Portable Ops.

I forgot about Portable Ops. I was talking about the Metal Gear Acid games being an alternate universe. Its hard to keep track of so much story line. Especially as it wasn't written as a whole but rather added too because they are milking the franchise. I'm surprised it all fits so well together in the first place.
 
Don't apply to much logic, it will only ruin the story. And if your referring to parts of the PSP games stories not making sense in the overall story line, those should be seen as an alternate universe.

AC!D was based on an alternative universe most likely but not Portable Ops
 
Can somebody tell how Roy Campbell isn't a founding member of the Patriots or how he wasn't the first person Big Boss recruited when he went broke away for Zero? Also, Gray Fox should have been among the first recruited by Big Boss when breaking away from the Patriots.
Obviously Campbell wasnt recruited and Big Boss didnt want him to be part of them. Or it was not up to him. Ocelot and Zero decided for Big Boss to join anyways. He wasnt exactly part of the planners.

I didnt play the original Metal Gear games, but my question is why was Campbell against Big Boss' plans in the first titles.

This suggests that Campbell never knew BB was one of the original Patriots or that Patriots existed at the beginning. He thought of BB as a retaliative who tried to establish a new order that threatened the balance of the old one, so he was forced to do something as a tool of the government (or the Patriots).
Snake being a clone would have been obvious to alot of people as Big Boss was considered a national hero and a legendary soldier. This had to be one of the worst kept secrets in the series yet it takes Snake a decade after being recruited by Foxhound for him to find out. Question to Big Boss. Who in their right mind would send a clone of himself after himself?
The best explanation I can give is that most met the face of Big Boss when he was old. Also Big Boss's retaliation may have spoiled his name before he would become an established national symbol to the masses. The game also hints that he was mostly known in military cycles not to every common citizen.

Snake was a less known figure though, since he acted secretly behind "curtains". Big Boss was a known quantity, Snake wasnt.

Big Boss didnt want his clones. He despised his clones, which was Zero's work. He probably would have attracted Snake towards him to take one of his clones out, who he knew was a tool of the Patriots.

The second worst kept secret has to be the Patriots themselves. Just about everyone outside of Snake and Octagon are aware of the presence of the Patroits and who is really running the world except the most important character of the series. Every antagonist of the Metal Gears series has known of the Patriots, yet it takes years for Snake to find out and he really never breaks free from their control. For all the dialogue Snake is forced to hear by his enemies, you think the line "You're working for the wrong side!!!" should of came up a couple of dozen times.

Not everyone. Key characters and select few only knew. Not even Meryl (and probably not even Campbell) knew. Only those that were in high governmental positions, those that retaliated with Big Boss, those who worked for Solidus and some who worked for Liquid seemed to know. Which were some of the few that were aware of them and so tried to take the Patriots down.

Snake was an important character but he was simultaneously a tragic character and a tool that was used by the patriots. He who didnt know was sent to fight those few that knew. So he ended up in an environment where he was the one that was aware of the least.

It was kind of expected that he would be one of the few that wouldnt know until MGS2.
 
Obviously Campbell wasnt recruited and Big Boss didnt want him to be part of them. Or it was not up to him. Ocelot and Zero decided for Big Boss to join anyways. He wasnt exactly part of the planners.

Zero recruited Ocelot, Ocelot's condition for joining was that Big Boss joined. Its to hard to dismiss that Big Boss would have had the most leverage of any Patriot member outside Zero to bring others into the fold since while not having the money, Big Boss has the manpower which ultimately becomes the foundation for FoxHound as well as Ocelot who's loyalty was to Big Boss.

I didnt play the original Metal Gear games, but my question is why was Campbell against Big Boss' plans in the first titles.

This suggests that Campbell never knew BB was one of the original Patriots or that Patriots existed at the beginning. He thought of BB as a retaliative who tried to establish a new order that threatened the balance of the old one, so he was forced to do something as a tool of the government (or the Patriots).

Which becomes problematic as Roy Campbell and Gray Fox represents the closet people to him not part of the Patriots. Its not like Big Boss retired and went home, he set up a rival organization while still commanding Foxhound. You think he would have recruited from within especially those close to him as whats the point of creating a rival organization while leaving close friends who are either highly competent as field leaders or as field operatives to serve under an organization that you are aiming to destroy.

The best explanation I can give is that most met the face of Big Boss when he was old. Also Big Boss's retaliation may have spoiled his name before he would become an established national symbol to the masses. The game also hints that he was mostly known in military cycles not to every common citizen.

Snake was a less known figure though, since he acted secretly behind "curtains". Big Boss was a known quantity, Snake wasnt.

Big Boss didnt want his clones. He despised his clones, which was Zero's work. He probably would have attracted Snake towards him to take one of his clones out, who he knew was a tool of the Patriots.

Nevertheless, Roy Campbell and Gray Fox have both seen Big Boss at a similar age as Solid Snake. Plus Big Boss had served as the commanding officer of Foxhound from the early 1970s through 1995. It should have been obvious to more than a few in FoxHound that Snake held more than a coincidental resemblance to Big Boss in his earlier days.

Kojima could have avoided this by not making Naked Snake a dead ringer for Solid Snake. Naked Snake could of foregone the mullet and the headband. If we can accept a 60 year old Snake with gray hair and a Magnum PI mustache, a Naked Snake with a full beard and crew cut would have been acceptable.

Not everyone. Key characters and select few only knew. Not even Meryl (and probably not even Campbell) knew. Only those that were in high governmental positions, those that retaliated with Big Boss, those who worked for Solidus and some who worked for Liquid seemed to know. Which were some of the few that were aware of them and so tried to take the Patriots down.

Maybe a select few that worked under the Patriots and the US gov't but every major antagonists knew of their existence since MG1, which is problematic as there no reason for your enemies to maintain your secret. Its made worse given all the dialogue that Solid Snake seems to have with his enemies that the existence of the Patriots are never mentioned to him until MGS3.

Snake was an important character but he was simultaneously a tragic character and a tool that was used by the patriots. He who didnt know was sent to fight those few that knew. So he ended up in an environment where he was the one that was aware of the least.

It was kind of expected that he would be one of the few that wouldnt know until MGS2.

No, whats tragic is that by retconning the story the way Kojima did left illogical premises that couldn't be resolved. He can't change the fact that MG1, MG2 and MGS1 were all created without the Patriots in mind and all the retconning creates a disconnect between pre MGS2 games in the series and post MGS2 games which shows up in characters that span the series especially Solid Snake.

While I applaud Kojima for his creation of a fantastic premise for a very complex storyline. I think he did a disservice to Solid Snake by keeping him in the dark longer than logical possible and then once the information comes to light never allowing Solid Snake to contemplate the manipulation of himself as he spends the majority of MGS4 with assistance from those he has to know are being manipulated by the Patriots. He ends up not only being a tool for the Patriots but also a tool for Outer Heaven/Haven.
 
New MGO pack soon...I remember footage of the underground one in the original trailers for MGO! Grrrrr...it looked really cool, was expecting it to be included. Don't know if I want to pay for this. http://www.konami.jp/mgo/us/hd/products/index.html#c04

Though i do understand we basically got MGO free with MGS4 :D However, unless the pack is on the PSN Store (which I doubt) I won't be buying it. They aren't having my card details.
 
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So soon ? I have not jumped onto MGO yet (Disc is with a friend). I should really start soon before R2 beta begins. I will be getting this just because of the additional skill slot. The underground waterway (I don't remember seeing this in the game) looks promising.
 

Way too many exclamation points in their description. :LOL:

The much awaited ""METAL GEAR ONLINE GENE EXPANSION"" is now available!! DO NOT miss this opportunity to become a part of the evolution that is MGO!! Throw yourself onto new and unconquered Maps!! Make use of a whole new set of gimmicks and Characters! Why not try out the awesome new game mode "Survival"!?

At the same time, we will be opening the "Reward Shop" for business!! Get you character some new gear by earning Reward Points in the game!!

But that's not all... The "METAL GEAR ONLINE GENE EXPANSION PLUS" comes with all of the above plus 1 MGO Extra Character Slot!! If you were looking to create another Character, then this is a great opportunity!!

Join in the MGO evolution by getting yourself the MGO Expansion Pack!! MGO just keeps getting better!!

I count 19. :D

EDIT

Missed one. 20.
 
Subjective Graphics comparision on five acts of MGS 4.

Act 1 > Act 2= Act 4 > Act 3 > Act 5.

For me,the texture quality in Act 3 is somewhat bad. I know there are some filter for bloom effect,but it is really blurry on building textures.
 
That's why I like the MGO Midtown map during the beta. It's one of the areas in Act 1.

Although Act 3 is a lot more quiet than the other acts, it is my overall favorite level visually because everything about it is SO different from the rest. I like the soft artistic look of the environment. As I mentioned before, the level reminds me of the first Mission Impossible movie.

The last Liquid fight in Act 5 is also memorable for me. The red sunset conveys the mood very well. But my single most favorite scene is the cementary of flowers (so pretty !).



Gameplay-wise, I replay Act 4 and 5 the most, just because I like quick and intensive sessions for replays.
 
Is it true there are three red rings on Big Boss' cigar when he dies...flashing? I missed it i think...

I heard of it before I saw that part and even though I was consciously looking for it when it happen my first response was "Did I just see that or was that just my mind playing tricks on me, LOL". Its either a very subtle poke or just some graphical glitch thats a coincedence.
 
Well I finally finished the game, it took me a month. I had over 17 hours of game time. I liked the game, despite being a MGS noob. I did a little homework to fill in the back story and let the game do the rest. I thought the game play was varied and well paced and the story was one of the best for a video game. I felt I had an emotional attachment to the characters in the end.

Sure some of the cut scenes were long and slow, but it felt more natural than rushing through the dialogue like in the movies when they only have 90 minutes to tell a story.

Overall it's a 9.0/10 game, but it could be higher if I had used a bit more strategy and less running and shooting. I can also see how the game could be near perfect for a MGS fan, one who has played all the games. I feel compelled to try MGS3, but I'm not sure I have time.

I will probably play through again in the future and try to get by without killing. I'll try to use more gadgets and less weapons.
 
MGO 1.10 patched:

MGO Ver. 1.10 Update Information
Ver.1.10 Update information

GENE EXPANSION VERSION CHANGES
Additional Unique Characters
Meryl and Johnny have been added.

Additional Female Character
You can create a female character from 8 different face and voice templates.
Please note: you cannot change the gender of existing characters.

Additional new maps
"Coppertown Conflict", "Tomb of Tubes" and "Virtuous Vista" have been added

Additional new rule "Survival Mode" has been added. Join up with up to 5 other players in one team and face danger!
This mode is available on fridays, saturdays and sundays.

Update information: changes for all versions


Reward shop has opened it's doors!
The reward shop has been implemented. Now you can exchange reward points for gear.

Additional clan room
Dedicated clan rooms can now be created

Additional information about SOP
You can now see traps set by teammates through SOP.

Additional new Skill:
2 kinds of skill have been added.
"Box Move" accelerates movement speed when you are hiding in a box.
"Quick Recovery" the speed of recovery when helping a teammate has been increased.

Change of weapon specification
Custom parts of M870 Datsite, Scope has been added
The number of bullets of the P90 has been changed from 300 to 250.
The range of hand gun's AUTO AIM has been changed from 15M to 10M.
The range of Assalt Rifle's AUTO AIM has been changed from 5M to 7M.
Adjusted the specs of Shotgun's AUTO AIM
Changed MK17 3000DP to 2500DP.
Changed XM8'DP from 4000DP to 3500DP.
Changed G3A3's DP from 4000DP to 5000DP.
Changed M14 EBR's DP from 750DP to 3000DP.
Changed M870 from 1000DP to 750DP.
Changed SLUG bullet from 5000DP to 2000DP.
Changed V.RING bullet from 3000DP to 2000DP.
Changed E.LOCATER from 750DP to1500DP.
Adjusted the range of Stun Knife's electric shock attack.

Bigger inbox!
You can keep up to 32 mails (up from 16 mails).

Results screen has been modified
"Game Play Option" category has been added
Back ground music volume setting has been added
"Individual battle score" category has been added
Weapon information has been added.
"Snake" "Metal Gear Mk.II", "Meryl" and "Jonny" have been added
*"Meryl" and "Jonny" can only be found in the "GENE EXPANSION"
*If you train using "Metal Gear Mk.II" or "Jonny", traps will have been set in the stage.
 
I think you'll cry if you try MGS3. The story and presentation is amazing, but half the challenge in the game is struggling with the controls.

Well, there is the mgs3 subsistence that has a lot better camera than the original mgs3.

I would rather play mgs2 though. It rocks more than mgs3 or mgs4 in my tiny world.
 
I think MGS3 is the best, once u get the hang of the controls.You have much more flexibility and options once the controls are set in your hands. I really missed interrogating enemies in MGS4!
 
Just something slightly irrelevant. I just finished MGS4 again and decided to zoom to the light on the Big Boss's cigar to see whether the rrod was there.

Well...at first I thought it was a coincidence that it looked like it. Low res red light, symmetric and pixelated...it was just a trick of the eye and nothing more because of low detail.... until...I just realized a green light in the middle of it which had no place on a lighted cigar. It was indeed a rrod. That Kojima guy is something else
 
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