[PS3] Killzone 3

[Afrikan]

although these are super sampled shots, I'm sure the real version will at lease have similar lighting..but are they faking HDR Lighting here?

http://images.gamersyde.com/image_killzone_3-14629-2035_0002.jpg

and this shot just looks amazing....those sparks and fire effects
http://images.gamersyde.com/image_killzone_3-14629-2035_0001.jpg

Hey Laa-Yosh ! THey seem to be doing some fake tone-mapping to simulate HDR in the new SP videos. Can you chk it out and tell what it is. Basically, if you look at dark areas the image brightens up and if you look at sunlight the image darkens as it would if they were using HDR.

is that what happens at 0:55 of this clip?

 

[Laa-Yosh]

although these are super sampled shots, I'm sure the real version will at lease have similar lighting..but are they faking HDR Lighting here?

http://images.gamersyde.com/image_killzone_3-14629-2035_0002.jpg

There's nothing that'd say HDR to me on that shot, it's low contrast and very diffused actually, so a low dynamic range is used.

What you probably think to be related is that there's a slight glow on the sky. It's a very simple post processing effect, they can generate a mask for it by comparing the Z-depth difference between the foreground objects and the skybox, for example.

 

[Antan]

although these are super sampled shots, I'm sure the real version will at lease have similar lighting..but are they faking HDR Lighting here?

http://images.gamersyde.com/image_killzone_3-14629-2035_0002.jpg

and this shot just looks amazing....those sparks and fire effects
http://images.gamersyde.com/image_killzone_3-14629-2035_0001.jpg



is that what happens at 0:55 of this clip?

As someone mentoned earlier, the sacrafices/workarounds needed to get the end result looking as good as it does was surely worth it? Joe public doesn't know the inside of a fart let alone something like this. They see whats on screen and pass judgement. What GG added far outweigh whats missing or toned down from KZ2.

 

[Arwin]

What are you amazed by ?

Everything! It's a great demo. It is one of those rare demos where you play for half an hour and then the game stops and you remember that you were playing a demo, not the full game. It's the demo that was shown earlier, with the on-rail shooting section, landing, snow, fighting, flying, etc.

As for the comparison screenshots, yes Killzone 2 looked great also, but the improvements are the type of improvements that stand out when you play the game on your TV, not nearly as much on small screenshots, simply because the detail level is so much higher on every level. It is the same kind of thing that makes Uncharted 2's image quality stand out so much more when you are actually playing it on your PS3 and TV.

And yeah, the sound of those gun shells falling down on the metal floor beside you definitely stand out ... !

 

[NotTarts]

E
And yeah, the sound of those gun shells falling down on the metal floor beside you definitely stand out ... !

It's not too loud, is it? I found this really annoying in Crysis.

 

[Arwin]

It's not too loud, is it? I found this really annoying in Crysis.

No, I don't think so. Seems fine to me as it is.

 

[stofcri]

Move on the beta worked fine. Now I am starting to get problems with the single player demo which is irritating.

The Move controller keeps going off center especially after I reload. Everytime I reload the cursor moves completely to the left and my character keeps spinning until I point the controller completely to the right. I have recalibrated the controller a shitload of times and I keep getting the same problem. I dont know what the hell is wrong with it but Its killing the game for me.

Does anyone get the same issue?

I think you should try to calibrate your move directly in the xmb in the accessory's section before calibrate it in the game.

 

[Antan]

Everything! It's a great demo. It is one of those rare demos where you play for half an hour and then the game stops and you remember that you were playing a demo, not the full game. It's the demo that was shown earlier, with the on-rail shooting section, landing, snow, fighting, flying, etc.

As for the comparison screenshots, yes Killzone 2 looked great also, but the improvements are the type of improvements that stand out when you play the game on your TV, not nearly as much on small screenshots, simply because the detail level is so much higher on every level. It is the same kind of thing that makes Uncharted 2's image quality stand out so much more when you are actually playing it on your PS3 and TV.

And yeah, the sound of those gun shells falling down on the metal floor beside you definitely stand out ... !

And they roll if at an angle!

 

[Laa-Yosh]

You guys should read up a bit on HDR and tone mapping to gain a better understanding of the issue... for example the one from Naughty Dog, it should be in the sticky topic in the Technology forum.

The most important thing about high dynamic range is the mathematical precision that it allows. This is absolutely required for realistic lighting, where the calculations are performed with simple linear numbers. Sunlight is like 10.000 times as bright as a candle, adding together the effects of two spot lights in a night scene should create expected results, and so on. Also, tone mapping isn't just about adjusting the exposure of the aperture to the lighting conditions.

So what KZ3 tries to do is highly superficial and won't help the inherent problems that cause for example the clamping of the highlights. This problem was probably there in the previous game as well but the lighters didn't push the engine that far to have the kind of serious artifacting that we can see now.

 

[Billy Idol]

demo:

I like that textures are high res, like that shadows are now rather high res compared to KZ2. character models are super detailed to me.

I am not the biggest fan of MLAA in this game: sometimes it looks super clean, some scenes suffer from aliasing. I always thought that KZ2 was super clean most of the time.
In GOW3 there was only one scene I remember (when you get out of Styx, and walk up the way, you get aliasing issues on the ground) with aliasing issues, the rest was super clean!

I am not sure if I like the day light stuff. Snow, Sun light, lots of colors...hm, I am not sure if I like my Killzone this way. I hope that they have gritty, dark stuff. At the moment: to much color for my taste...hope that gritty scenes are still the majority.

Gameplay is super fun, sliding is great, melee has improved a lot compared to gamescom version, shooting, moving, everthing is fine.

Overall a very good demo IMO.

PS: kind of lame that I have to download it again, to test the 3D version...thanks god I have 100MBit...but still kind of weird?!?

 

[Trejser]

Different video files for cutscenes.

 

[Arwin]

There's nothing that'd say HDR to me on that shot, it's low contrast and very diffused actually, so a low dynamic range is used.

What you probably think to be related is that there's a slight glow on the sky. It's a very simple post processing effect, they can generate a mask for it by comparing the Z-depth difference between the foreground objects and the skybox, for example.

He is in no way suggesting there is HDR. He is asking if what he sees are the results of faked HDR. But really he's talking about dynamic contrast that simulates sudden changes in brightness and the delay of your lense to adjust to it. These kind of effects generally take place in a small range (mostly very bright colors) and therefore exposes the weakness of LDR more than most.

So basically, this has nothing to do with HDR other than that HDR would have made this look better.

Which does not change the fact that you are right and that some guys here should read up on what HDR is a bit.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

He's asking if it's tone mapping, which is only necessary with HDR (since the rendered image can't be displayed on an LDR monitor) and I've explained why it isn't doing the most important thing that tone mapping is used for.

 

[Arwin]

He's asking if it's tone mapping, which is only necessary with HDR (since the rendered image can't be displayed on an LDR monitor) and I've explained why it isn't doing the most important thing that tone mapping is used for.

I meant afrikan. You're referring to RenegadeRocks, I see, so we're talking in paralel.

 

[L. Scofield]

although these are super sampled shots, I'm sure the real version will at lease have similar lighting..but are they faking HDR Lighting here?

http://images.gamersyde.com/image_killzone_3-14629-2035_0002.jpg

and this shot just looks amazing....those sparks and fire effects
http://images.gamersyde.com/image_killzone_3-14629-2035_0001.jpg



is that what happens at 0:55 of this clip?

Reminds me of SotC. They have color grading per zones. Bloom is also activated and deactivated depending on what zone you're inside of.

 

[patsu]

I am not sure if I like the day light stuff. Snow, Sun light, lots of colors...hm, I am not sure if I like my Killzone this way. I hope that they have gritty, dark stuff. At the moment: to much color for my taste...hope that gritty scenes are still the majority.

Yes, this is the biggest difference to me. I prefer the gloomy KZ2 atmosphere too. Some of the KZ3 screens look like it's a good day to go picnic. ^_^

Gameplay is super fun, sliding is great, melee has improved a lot compared to gamescom version, shooting, moving, everthing is fine.

Overall a very good demo IMO.

That is all I care for now. The AI news is perfect for me.

 

[ct03]

Yeah, I think I'll take 3x the polycount, 3x the draw distance, 4x better textures...

They tripled the poly count and quadrupled texture res despite adding a stereoscopic 3D mode? Do you have a source?

 

[scently]

Well I really like this demo, it just confirmed that the lag issue I had with KZ2 has been fixed. The first thing I noticed was how snappy the gameplay/gunplay and movement is compared to KZ2. I am very happy about this.

About the graphics, well I think it looks absolutely fantastic, but at the same time, it looks very different from KZ2. KZ2 had this dark and gloomy look going on, which, coupled with the blur and the QAA gave it a very CG-ish look. KZ3 on the other hand looks very clean and sharp, and while the post processing is still present it looks different from KZ2. Which look do I prefer? Well I like both.

Anyway I already have the game pre-ordered.

 

[Antan]

They tripled the poly count and quadrupled texture res despite adding a stereoscopic 3D mode? Do you have a source?

I can agree with trippled polycount, clearly evident in vids released. and playing the demo. The texture res has been improved, but saying 4x seems a bit OTT when KZ2's were pretty high to begin with. Theres less low res textures thats for sure.

 

[patsu]

It's paraphrased from a KZ3 presentation:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1519378&postcount=1454

They don't have to be fully used in 3D mode though.