[PS3] Killzone 3
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corduroygt
Banned
Can't be worse than MW2...I still don't see why people praise that game with horrible and completely illogical SP story and broken MP.
Lucid_Dreamer
Veteran
And just to give that some perspective, Prototype had around 30 systems / 500 particles.
http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~bdstephe/585_W10/killzone.pdf
But, that's not technically impressive, right?
Lucid_Dreamer
Veteran
I believe you are wrong about the volumetric shadows.
It's utterly tedious moaning. It's like 'that circle's just not square enough.', 'OK, lets make it into a square.', 'Yeah, but now it's just not round enough.'
This is missing, that's missing, it doesn't do this the right way... It's a game not a life support machine. If it's fun to play, which according to the majority of reviews, it is. If the graphics are good enough to visually immerse you in the world, whilst the sound score powers your emotions and you enjoy playing it then it is a good game, an amazing game, your favourite game. Whatever it brings to your doorstep.
And no amount of train spotters walking along, ticking little boxes in their little pads, will ruin that. Because they're not gamers, they're just in it for the shiny bits, tick boxes, and numbers. They all about the things that are wrong, in their opinion of course!, and would probably shrivel up and die if they had to say something positive.
Gears of war hurts my eyes. It seems to have a weird grainy look to it that just really grates for some reason. Especially GoW2, but there are also some aspects of KZ2 that just felt wrong as well
I don't really care if they are hand placed. You claimed that the godrays don't cast shadow. I'm just saying the one in KZ2 warehouse did. It's unclear whether the ones in the KZ3 screenshots do or don't. You haven't played the game, didn't develop the game, and don't know the full feature set. But you seem dead sure about all sorts of KZ3 limitations, whether they exist or not.
Screenshot is a rather primitive way to judge a game these days. Unless I like the art or it's really obvious, it's difficult to impress me these days. The image L Scofield posted above certainly doesn't look impressive to me. So what ?
L. Scofield
Veteran
Volumetric lighting/shadowing is independent from GI. Also, no realtime volumetric shadows in KZ2/3. Nothing like this:
Evidence, please
That's what Nebula and me like to call as interactive volumetric light
, beside it doesn't really matters if they interact with your characters or not....they can be volumetric but still not interact according to the character's position as was the case with most of lights in Alan Wake, very few of them actually interacted and moved according to wake's position, that particular lightsource is one of the two which I can recall that can interact with wake, even his flashlight which is obviously casting a volumetric light doesn't interacts with other objects or characters (for example Barry), the street lamps in RDR is another example...there are other examples in other games but you get the point I guess.That's what Nebula and me like to call as interactive volumetric light
I think Castlevania did it as well, where the volumetric sunlight flowing in from windows would interact with the curtains such that if you pulled the curtains away more light would flow in. Looked neat, they used that effect for a boss battle. Most games by and large just fake sun rays though.
Give KZ3 a try, so far they seem to be dabbling in color much more this time around.
Maybe you had already posted this, but how long did it take you to finish it?
You don't need volumetric lighting/shadowing to cast dynamic shadow.
KZ3 runs at 720p. Early Alan Wake marketing material managed 720p, 4xAA. The real game runs at 540p according to tech analysis. According to DF, there are screen tears in AW. If you were to accept 540p with screen tears, then KZ3 should deliver with flying colors. It even gives you split screen, and stereoscopic 3D.
You have MLAA in KZ3. Something you think TAA can rival. Unfortunately, Crytek decided to use the latter only for far objects. And DF mentioned that there are noticeable artifacts for close-by objects when TAA is used.
I'll gladly take GG's consolidated design choices over scattered/haphazard examples pulled from different games, and your personal preferences.
KZ2 has dynamic lights. To make Helghan come to life, they made a perpetually dusty/smoky environment and showered it with optical effects. I remember they even used your most favorite lens flare tech in the game. ^_^
If they can fit the actors and gameplay well in the game, they should be set to go.
EDIT:
I see. Would be interesting to see their post-mortem. Hard learned lessons are invaluable.
Volumetric lighting/shadowing is independent from GI. Also, no realtime volumetric shadows in KZ2/3. Nothing like this:
Evidence, please
That's a cutscene of Alan Wake just to be fair, the ingame lighting does not look anywhere near it and does NOT sport that interactive lighting. In fact the difference in lighting between the ingame and cutscene in alan wake is so jarring it really looks like two games.
Also am I the only one who finds the manually hand placed light shaft looks better? It's like artist can have more choices and exaggerate the lighting effect accordingly and not restricted by the algorithm, thus giving a better look at least when no objects clip it.
Lucid_Dreamer
Veteran
That's it, exactly! You just can't win with these sort of people. One game gets picked to death, yet another game gets more passes than the owner of Cirque Du Soleil. It's crazy!
From the demo, I'm pretty sure my eyes, ears, TV, and 7.1 system will thank me!
L. Scofield
Veteran
This is getting muddled. Let me be clear again, those sunshafts in the warehouse in KZ2 are handplaced meshes with a special material, they have nothing to do with the actual lighting calculations. So, the shadows casted by the light coming from the windows is a different matter, one that I have no objections with
Yep, trade-offs are decided all the time in game development.
It's from gameplay actually. But if you're not convinced:
Starting @7:15
That clip from Alan Wake is gameplay, not that Alan Wake should have anything to do with a Killzone thread.
This is a technical forum though. Shouldn't we be allowed to discuss the tech behind these games objectively, without our biases getting in the way?
Killzone 3 looks great, no question, which is why we want to dissect the tech behind it. It'd be good to know if its look is a result of cutting edge technology, very clever art style, or a bit of both.
geez reading every post of yours regarding 360, you would think the machine is barely capable of eclipsing the PS2.
it's actually becoming humorous
This is getting muddled. Let me be clear again, those sunshafts in the warehouse in KZ2 are handplaced meshes with a special material, they have nothing to do with the actual lighting calculations. So, the shadows casted by the light coming from the windows is a different matter, one that I have no objections with
Yep, trade-offs are decided all the time in game development.
It's from gameplay actually. But if you're not convinced:
Starting @7:15
OK my bad, but I was referring to the majority of cutscene vs the gameplay difference, which is huge. And it's not like Alan Wake has proper dynamic sun shaft either especially in the day time.
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