[PS3] Killzone 2

[rounin]

Ha ha ha, what? I knew you and Sidekick were pretty tight, but I wasn't expecting the backlash. Next time you're hanging out, you can let him know that I feel bad about what I said.

You can be delusional and make up stories all you want. I was just trying to help you understand why you and others like you were facing opposition. You can take my advice and tone it down or do with it what you like.

I think I should probably also chime in with my own opinion on the comrade-AI.

Personally I'm not a huge fan of the AI in veteran mode. I think they amount to newbies, but there are plenty of situations where they pull their weight. They attract fire and fire back, which is more than one can ask for from the AI of countless other games.

Where I'm stuck currently though, they're less than helpful but its better to have them than not to at least for me.

In other words, my opinion is pretty much the same as the vast majority of people playing the game, whether on forums, or on journalist sites.

 

[obonicus]

I'm pretty sure I was one of those people

Were you? I remember vanquish and someone else. I don't think you were the someone else, I think it might've been specwar.

 

[Scott_Arm]

One of my favourite moments in Sidekick history:

He does all that fancy lock picking for you, and yesterday he provided me with a gem. He walks up to a locked door and gives me this, "Let me show you how it's done," line. He proceeds to pick the lock. The door swings open and two baddies with shotguns burst through. They mowed him down before he could even turn around. Where's your cockiness now, Sidekick? I turned tail to get a better position, and Sidekick is calling me on the radio, "Help! Sev! Help me! I need help! Come on, Sev! Don't you want to help me! Please! Pretty please! I'll give you five bucks! Come on, Sev! Why don't you love me anymore?!" I may be exaggerating a little. Anyway, I dispatch the guys and go back to him. After beating him while he's down for a little, I decide to recharge his batteries and he gets up saying something like, "I just need to focus." Yeah, Sidekick, you just need to focus. The bullets those guys put in your brain are a really big distraction. Just concentrate a little more and you won't even notice that your body is riddled with holes and all of your blood is on the floor. Good times with Sidekick.

He loves to say, "Get some!" before being mowed down as well. I mean, if he's going to invite them ...

 

[patsu]

UORW[

Your sidekick is 100% shit. He's absolutely crap. He dies 20 times more than me. I started leaving him dead, and I actually started killing him intentionally because he sucks so much.

It's the other way round. Your sidekick may be 100% shit, but others may not think that way because they/we play the game differently. And of course once you started to kill him intentionally, you have more limited idea what he could do in general. They have their moments and uses but like Phil say, they are not there to do your job.

It should not be difficult for them to use the same enemy AI on your comrades. However, GG mentioned that they toned down friendly AI because in their assessment, they think the AI was too effective in killing Helghasts.

I don't want an AI dictating how I'm supposed to play. On hard settings like this, I play conservatively. I like the challenge of being killed quickly, so I can't run and gun. Sidekick is just a moron. Instead of sticking with me behind cover, he takes the stand in the open and absorb bullets approach. The only thing he does for me is absorb bullets, but he can't take enough to be very helpful.

I don't see how the AI is dictating your game.

It's not uncommon to rush out and knife people even on Elite. If you look at Kittonwy's tips on finishing the last level, you'd see that knifing is essential to stay alive. In those cases, having your sidekick out in the open may draw more fire for you. You may need to time your move though.

So far, the game is not too hard. I picked the hardest setting I had unlocked to start, and I think the difficulty is reasonable. I don't die too much. Each level seems to build to a big final fight, and those are usually the only places I die, unless I do something dumb.

Okay, you're playing on Elite ? Well... then you should be prepared for the challenge since it's the most difficult setting. Perhaps friendly AI help is not part of the plan in Elite.

I am not sure complaining about the AI on Elite is a meaningful exercise (It may be but there's always the "you-asked-for-it" element). How was the AI in your first playthrough ?

 

[BadTB25]

Does the game have on-line co-op?

 

[patsu]

Nope. Just competitive play.

It was rumored to be in but GG denied it a week or two later.

 

[BadTB25]

Nope. Just competitive play.

It was rumored to be in but GG denied it a week or two later.

That's too bad. Maybe for the inevitable sequel I guess.

I still need to pick up this game at some point. I was a little disappointed with the demos controls, but I thought that the lighting and animation was very impressive.

I was not blown away by the graphics, but from what has been posted here, it seems that the demo level may have been one of the lesser looking levels in the game.

Would you say that it is important to have a headset for on-line play? I haven't picked one up yet as I have not played online with my PS3 yet. I will have to eventually though.

Any suggestions on a good one that is reasonably priced?

 

[patsu]

The PS3 uses a standard Bluetooth device interface. Any good quality Bluetooth cellphone headset should work.

The Official PS3 headset HQ mode has the best quality so far. You can either buy it separately or bundled with Socom Confrontation.

The Jabra unit that was bundled with Warhawk is ok too, but nothing special.



Communication is important in some games with "high" stakes or team oriented (e.g., Socom). In other settings, it can be more fun (e.g., joking in the game lobby). In others, I find that I can still play effectively because of my lone-wolf play style. When I play with others, I can usually judge what they want to do next by observing them.

 

[scificube]

A headset will help you a lot in MP.

If you have a blue-tooth headset you use with your phone you can just use that. That's what I do.

As for co-op - there is no specific co-op mode/campaign but you will learn quickly that its best to co-operate during MP...or you can opt to just be free kills for all the other organized squads running around.

edit:
wow - I can't keep up with Patsu!

 

[Phil]

Okay, you're playing on Elite ? Well... then you should be prepared for the challenge since it's the most difficult setting. Perhaps friendly AI help is not part of the plan in Elite.

I think he's playing on Veteran. Elite is locked until you complete it on Veteran. It's the first and hardest available setting at the beginning.

Your sidekick is 100% shit. He's absolutely crap. He dies 20 times more than me. I started leaving him dead, and I actually started killing him intentionally because he sucks so much.

I don't want an AI dictating how I'm supposed to play. On hard settings like this, I play conservatively. I like the challenge of being killed quickly, so I can't run and gun. Sidekick is just a moron. Instead of sticking with me behind cover, he takes the stand in the open and absorb bullets approach. The only thing he does for me is absorb bullets, but he can't take enough to be very helpful.

Would you talk about your partner like that in a real warfare environment as well, even if he is lesser skilled than you? In this game you're the hero, not him. You're supposed to be better than him and also look out for him, i.e. not leaving him fight the Helghasts alone until he dies for being hopelessly outnumbered.

Maybe he dies so much because you're don't kill the Helghasts effectively and quick enough?

Also, about him dictating how you're supposed to play... Are there really that many options on how to play the game - or tackling a warfare in general in which you are outnumbered by your enemy in high numbers? I don't think so - the aim is to hit your targets, get as many kills as possible while staying alive, taking cover and occasionally help out your partner/allies and vice versa. If you take a different route, he even follows you as well and tries to make the best of it due to his abilities.

It's not as if you're criticism isn't valid, but making statements like "Your sidekick is 100% shit. He's absolutely crap. He dies 20 times more than me. I started leaving him dead, and I actually started killing him intentionally because he sucks so much." doesn't sound like a constructive argument and doesn't leave much to reply. Actually, it comes across as annoyed bickering.

 

[specwarGP2]

I'm not referring to you, actually, but to a couple of folks complaining about the controls before the patch was released. You don't like the game, but as far as I can see you're not trying to convince us that our opinions are wrong. Fine, you don't like KZ2.

Were you? I remember vanquish and someone else. I don't think you were the someone else, I think it might've been specwar.

That's rather hypocritical of you to say, don't you think? People who liked the controls defended them saying they were realistic, not twitchy etc.. and most certainly thought our (the people who didn't like the controls) opinions were wrong.

 

[Scott_Arm]

It's the other way round. Your sidekick may be 100% shit, but others may not think that way because they/we play the game differently. And of course once you started to kill him intentionally, you have more limited idea what he could do in general. They have their moments and uses but like Phil say, they are not there to do your job.

It should not be difficult for them to use the same enemy AI on your comrades. However, GG mentioned that they toned down friendly AI because in their assessment, they think the AI was too effective in killing Helghasts.

I don't see how the AI is dictating your game.

It's not uncommon to rush out and knife people even on Elite. If you look at Kittonwy's tips on finishing the last level, you'd see that knifing is essential to stay alive. In those cases, having your sidekick out in the open may draw more fire for you. You may need to time your move though.

Okay, you're playing on Elite ? Well... then you should be prepared for the challenge since it's the most difficult setting. Perhaps friendly AI help is not part of the plan in Elite.

I am not sure complaining about the AI on Elite is a meaningful exercise (It may be but there's always the "you-asked-for-it" element). How was the AI in your first playthrough ?

I'm on my first playthrough. I picked the highest difficulty available to me, whatever that is.

The AI seems to want me to play aggressively. He's always rushing out of cover. I don't want to rush. I have no problems playing a conservative tactical approach. If he stuck close to me and took cover more often, I'd be ok. There have been fights where I've revived him 10 times, if not more. So there isn't much use. I usually just wait for him to revive when the fight is over. The only reason I started killing him was for my own amusement. It didn't seem to hurt me any.

I haven't played with the knife much, because I don't like the location of the button. Maybe I'll have to get used to it.

 

[BadTB25]

Can the official PS3 headset be used with cell phones too? (probably a dumb question)
It would be great if it did as I was thinking of getting one anyway.

About how much are they?

 

[obonicus]

That's rather hypocritical of you to say, don't you think? People who liked the controls defended them saying they were realistic, not twitchy etc.. and most certainly thought our (the people who didn't like the controls) opinions were wrong.

Yes, and you counter-argued that every game should be like CoD4, and that those who don't agree don't know anything about MP FPS because they're new to the genre. Eventually it did degenerate into people telling you folks 'maybe you just suck at KZ2' after one too many appeals to false expertise. Let's not get into the ridiculous 'you're in the military? I'm far more in the military than you' contest (not just you, of course) from this and the other thread.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I think he's playing on Veteran. Elite is locked until you complete it on Veteran. It's the first and hardest available setting at the beginning.

I think you are correct.

Would you talk about your partner like that in a real warfare environment as well, even if he is lesser skilled than you? In this game you're the hero, not him. You're supposed to be better than him and also look out for him, i.e. not leaving him fight the Helghasts alone until he dies for being hopelessly outnumbered.

Nope. War is war. Killzone2 is entertainment. I am clearly very very very very much better than Sidekick. I rarely die. He seems to die all of the time. Yeah, I do leave him to fight alone, because he likes running out in front of machine gun turrets. I'm not a big fan of that strategy, so I'll stick to what works. I'd rather have Sidekick stick close to me, sort of like some games let you set your AI partner on attack/defend. I prefer the defend, so I can pick when I want to be aggressive rather than have the AI lead the charge.

Maybe he dies so much because you're don't kill the Helghasts effectively and quick enough?

Maybe, but it sure would be helpful if he stopped offering himself as a soft bed for bullets to sleep in.

Also, about him dictating how you're supposed to play... Are there really that many options on how to play the game - or tackling a warfare in general in which you are outnumbered by your enemy in high numbers? I don't think so - the aim is to hit your targets, get as many kills as possible while staying alive, taking cover and occasionally help out your partner/allies and vice versa. If you take a different route, he even follows you as well and tries to make the best of it due to his abilities.

There's more to it than that. Some people play really aggressive run and gun. I usually lure the enemies into traps, bait them around corners or up stairwells. I take the one at a time approach until I can dwindle the numbers enough to make a controlled rush. They're pretty aggressive with grenades in this game, but if you pick a spot with enough cover that you can quickly switch positions, it works a charm.

It's not as if you're criticism isn't valid, but making statements like "Your sidekick is 100% shit. He's absolutely crap. He dies 20 times more than me. I started leaving him dead, and I actually started killing him intentionally because he sucks so much." doesn't sound like a constructive argument and doesn't leave much to reply. Actually, it comes across as annoyed bickering.

Yeah, Sidekick is pretty annoying. He's funny sometimes though. I mean, no it isn't very constructive, but it isn't as if GG will read my post and decide to overhaul the AI. Really, all I'm doing is voicing my opinion about the useless AI. Sidekick is slightly more useful than the blond girl in RE4. Dom is probably a good example of a reasonable AI sidekick. He doesn't dom-inate (pun intended) to the point where he steals all your kills, but he'll get a couple for you and general not die too much that he becomes cumbersome (Hardcore mode in Gears2 is easier than KZ2's veteran, to be fair). He also doesn't run his mouth all the time. Dom is kind of the ideal bare minimum for an AI sidekick.

 

[patsu]

I'm on my first playthrough. I picked the highest difficulty available to me, whatever that is.

That would be Veteran. You used the word "unlock". That threw me off.
Veteran is available by default.

The AI seems to want me to play aggressively. He's always rushing out of cover. I don't want to rush. I have no problems playing a conservative tactical approach. If he stuck close to me and took cover more often, I'd be ok. There have been fights where I've revived him 10 times, if not more. So there isn't much use. I usually just wait for him to revive when the fight is over. The only reason I started killing him was for my own amusement. It didn't seem to hurt me any.

Hmm.. cooperating does not mean everyone does the same exact thing. As I pointed out above, you as a human, have to exploit the situation. e.g., When Rico was shooting at Helghasts on the first floor in the last encounter, I sometimes sneaked back into first floor and flanked the Helghast troopers from behind (while taking a few shots myself).

When I fought in the open, I sometimes caught a glimpse of Rico fighting behind cover. So they don't always stand in the open.

You can also look at KZ2 YouTube videos to see how others complete their missions. The friendly AI certainly did not cause any problem for them in combat, or force them to play in one particular way. They do suck if the combat area is too small. Then again, so would your human comrades if they stand in the middle of a bridge and snipe while you try to get to the other side.

I haven't played with the knife much, because I don't like the location of the button. Maybe I'll have to get used to it.

You may need to because it's a one hit kill.


EDIT: If you kill your comrades too often (3 times), they will shoot you in anger. Their aggression will be reset after a few moments.

 

[specwarGP2]

Yes, and you counter-argued that every game should be like CoD4, and that those who don't agree don't know anything about MP FPS because they're new to the genre. Eventually it did degenerate into people telling you folks 'maybe you just suck at KZ2' after one too many appeals to false expertise. Let's not get into the ridiculous 'you're in the military? I'm far more in the military than you' contest (not just you, of course) from this and the other thread.

Why would there be a contest? No one who's had any meaningful experience with a weapon would ever say that the aiming in KZ2 is realistic.

 

[patsu]

specwarGP2, you still have issues with the new control scheme ?

 

[Scott_Arm]

That would be Veteran. You used the word "unlock". That threw me off.
Veteran is available by default.

Bad choice of words on my part.

Hmm.. cooperating does not mean everyone does the same exact thing. As I pointed out above, you as a human, have to exploit the situation. e.g., When Rico was shooting at Helghasts on the first floor in the last encounter, I sometimes sneaked back into first floor and flanked the Helghast troopers from behind (while taking a few shots).

When I fought in the open, I sometimes caught a glimpse of Rico fighting behind cover. So they don't always stand in the open.

There have been a few parts where you're split up and I've wondered if Sidekick was invincible at those times. When we're together he seems to drop really quick, usually stepping out from around a corner to fire at someone that's clearly behind cover. The best place I've found him dead was lying on top of a pile of fragments from exploded barrels.

He does take cover, but he doesn't seem to like to stay in it and he doesn't seem to like to blind fire.

You can also look at KZ2 YouTube videos to see how others complete their missions. The friendly AI certainly did not cause any problem for them in combat, or force them to play in one particular way. They do suck if the combat area is too small. Then again, so would your human comrades if they stand in the middle of a bridge and snipe while you try to get to the other side.

The AI hasn't really hindered me, but it hasn't helped either.

You may need to because it's a one hit kill.

Did not know. I'll check it out the next time I play. I tend to use the rifle smash, but sometimes it requires more than one hit. It's just quicker to hit that button.

EDIT: If you kill your comrades too often (3 times), they will shoot you in anger. Their aggression will be reset after a few moments.

Never noticed. I'm pretty sure I killed Rico enough last night that I should have found out


I think I've run my course on the AI commenting. DrJay can sleep well tonight.

 

[Oboro Shogun]

You could make a whole meta game of Elite difficulty by trying to keep your partner alive. It's like they hate life and just want it over with.