Provocative comment by Id member about PS2 (and Gamecube)!

You haven't been paying attention then. They both are more on par than you think, and competitive in different ways, as well. However, you do need to spend a chunk of money to make either into a 9 sec qtr mile car.
 
Yes, you "think" it does. That's about it.

This is a pretty immature digression, as we will never agree on what is an appropriate analogy because we cannot even agree on what the original objects are in relation. Just pass on it.
 
randycat99 said:
Yes, you "think" it does. That's about it.

This is a pretty immature digression, as we will never agree on what is an appropriate analogy because we cannot even agree on what the original objects are in relation. Just pass on it.

Well if you cannot even admit that Xbox is superior to PS2 in most ways then there's really no point in continuing.

1. More polys
2. Per pixel effects like BM
3. Higher quality filtering like trilinear/Anisotropic
4. Higher resolution textures
5. Texture compression
6. Progressive Scan output + 720P support
7. HDD
8. Ethernet
9. 4 controller ports
10. D.I.C.E.

A Mustang and Camaro are about equal in all areas so obviously that analogy is not suitable. Xbox is superior to PS2 in most areas just like a Corvette is superior to a Mustang in most areas. To make the Mustang competitive with the Corvette you have to spend money on the Mustang. Out of the box a Corvette is superior to a Mustang in most ways. BTW when I said I "think" I was being modest as it's pretty obvious to anyone that the analogy is more suited than the one you mentioned earlier.
 
Is this thread not locked yet?

Anyway in Europe we have the good old RGB SCART connector this leads to a pretty good image for most devices. I must say the S-Video out on the PS2 is very poor and I would never use it. The composite connection is even worse. I was always surprised at how bad the basic output signal was for the PS2.

I guess most of you guys in the US are using the crappy S-video out. I would say don't judge the PS2 IQ when using this or the composite cable they are both very poor.

I have my PS2 hooked-up using component cables, the picture quality is outstanding. I was pleasantly surprised when I did the switch. Anyway I play a lot of games on Prog Scan now on my 42" Plasma panel and I must say the image quality is very good.

I would single out Burnout 2 for the crisp, clear IQ in Prog Scan mode, the differences with the interlaced version are very pronnounced. I would also mention Soul Calibur II, which also has an outstanding Prog Scan picture on the PS2.

Games like Primal and The Getaway are disappointing in Prog Scan and look little better than when interlaced. The Getaway evens suffers from processing artefacts when in Prog Scan mode.

I might do a side-by-side comparison with Xbox on my Plasma. Would Burnout 2 and Soul Calibur II be acceptable candidates. What other games should I use to compare the IQ? (Only 60 FPS titles please)

I can't get a prog scan image out of a UK Xbox, should I expect the PS2 versions of Burnout 2 and Soul Calibur II to have better IQ becuase of this?
 
yeah funny enough, the only version of SC2 with pro-scan here in europe is the PS2 version... which is ridiculous considering the Xbox version can go up to 720p....
really pathetic...
burnout2 in pro-scan is flat out amazing.
 
Anyway in Europe we have the good old RGB SCART connector this leads to a pretty good image for most devices.

it's pretty much the next best thing from Prog scan. and europe has had it for years already.

I guess most of you guys in the US are using the crappy S-video out. I would say don't judge the PS2 IQ when using this or the composite cable they are both very poor.

thank god that the GC has native RGB out back home. although I believe the trade off is progressive scan mode has been removed.


yeah funny enough, the only version of SC2 with pro-scan here in europe is the PS2 version... which is ridiculous considering the Xbox version can go up to 720p....

isn't there a hack for this (on the evolution dashboard most likely).
 
notAFanB said:
yeah funny enough, the only version of SC2 with pro-scan here in europe is the PS2 version... which is ridiculous considering the Xbox version can go up to 720p....

isn't there a hack for this (on the evolution dashboard most likely).


well, i've been asking around and looked for stuff on the net for the last year and never found anything.... so unless i really am stupid or blind, no i dont think u can get pro scan out of PAL xboxes. even modding doesnt help.... but of course if someone knows something about it, please let me know, u'll make a new xbox customer (i'll only buy an xbox when i can get pro scan out of it)
 
notAFanB said:
Anyway in Europe we have the good old RGB SCART connector this leads to a pretty good image for most devices.

it's pretty much the next best thing from Prog scan. and europe has had it for years already.
...
I'd take the component with convenient RCA connectors any day over the pervert SCART :devilish:
I'd think the IQ component vs. RGB SCART is somewhat equal, I've even read that component would be a little better.
The +'s for SCART are some extra functionality, like automatic channel data transfer from TV to VCR, automatic AV channel and aspect ratio switching plus some others.
 
I'd take the component with convenient RCA connectors any day over the pervert SCART

I am not refering to scart solely. since SCART!=RGB but a decent tv will probably have an RGB capable SCART input somewhere.

I'd think the IQ component vs. RGB SCART is somewhat equal, I've even read that component would be a little better.

I can't even see how that is possible if the coputer device supports native RGB out :oops: .

care to elaborate?
 
Isn't component also red-green-blue on separate leads?
I don't know about the differences so much, just what I've read from local home cinema and HiFi magazines, and read in forums.
 
Isn't component also red-green-blue on separate leads?

sort of the signals are multiplexed with the luminance sig. there is some slight compression of the Green component making slightly lossy I suppose (any HiFi geeks wanna just in here?).

really for computer output it's tough to beat RGB.
 
I thought component was capable of RGB or its more common format, which I think is red, blue, and the difference between the 2 which is later used to figure out the green.(something like that.....maybe)

BTW, London Boy, you could always get a modded foreign xbox(I'm sure they have them) and import all your games, you don't mind adding an extra 40% onto all the prices do you?

PC-Engine- Can an xbox really do more raw polys than ps2? I thought if you just had raw, flat shaded polys, the ps2 would do more.(Hey, look at MGS2, the textures might as well be flat shaded they're so drab, yet its characters models are better than splinter cell's)

Oh, and can't PS2 be modded for VGA out? I think xbox might be able to too, and gamecube has d-terminal cables which I think are very similar to vga.(just different aspects I think.....I think too much) Also the component cables can be modded to output VGA....but I guess none of that is true vga out, since I haven't heard anyone say any of the consoles under VGA are even always equal to dreamcast under VGA.
 
Fox5 said:
PC-Engine- Can an xbox really do more raw polys than ps2?

Make sure you ask him to qualify his answer with whether it is derived from a MS "micro-poly" rating, regular polys, or some sort of Nvidia hype spec.
 
If you're the type of person who wants to spend ungodly amounts of money on a de-interlacer to bring interlaced output on the PS2 to progressive quality then more power to you.
Or you can just use cheap PC with DScaller and get the same results as the best commercial deinterlacers.

A Mustang and Camaro are about equal in all areas so obviously that analogy is not suitable.
Any comparision with cars is completely ridiculous, as cars are self-sufficient devices that are compelling on their own, where consoles by themselves do almost nothing, if you don't buy software for them. If you want to make a comparision with cars you would have to imagine some kind of ridiculous situation that a car that would represent Xbox would be able to run faster, but wouldn't be able to go to a number of cities where you could go with a car that represents PS2. Conversely, the car that represents PS2 wouldn't be able to go to some of the cities that 'Xbox car' can, but that number would be smaller. It's just very ridiculous coparision, really :p
 
Paul said:
PC-Engine- Can an xbox really do more raw polys than ps2?

It can if you take in account the BS 4000M fillrate spec given by MS(1000m * 4 because of the 4X AA) Misleading.
That's pixel fillrate. Close to 4000Mp is an effective number though considering the NV2A has dedicated multi-sampling hardware.

The Xbox can obtain the raw polycount of 116.5mpps and I believe it's been tested before. Raw polycount means jack in actual game situations for any of the systems though.
 
When 4X AA is turned on? Sure.

The actual NV2A fillrate is around 933-1000M.

This IS fillrate your right, but look how you get raw polygon counts. Take the 32 and divide by fillrate, in case of ps2 this is 2400/32 = 75.

Xbox with MS's 4000M supposed fillrate? 125 million you guessed it; but Xbox has a 1000M fillrate not a 4000M. The 4000M comes from the fact that they multiplied it 4 times because of the 4X AA.
 
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