Yes,people still overestimated next Kinect/OS etc
Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech
- Thread starter Acert93
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Why should it be that difficult? I'm sure it isn't that much effort to coherently connect two Jaguar "modules" or "tiles" through some northbridge just like it is done with the Bulldozer modules in the FX CPUs or the Piledriver modules in Trinity. Where's the problem? One will need a northbridge anyway for connecting the CPU and GPU parts to each other and to memory. This software partitioning looks just wierd and wasteful. It is certainly not the better way.
DoctorFouad
Newcomer
are you implying that xboxnext / PS4 would cost less than 500$ in retail with their jaguar or any other chipset they choose for fall 2013 ? are you serious ?
The underpowered Nintendo WiiU already costs 350$ and it is selling very well at this price, why would microsoft and sony sell their new cutting edge consoles in fall 2013 at less than 500$ ?
I suppose the goal of a console manufacturer not using off shelf components is to control and decrease costs of manufacturing especially in the long run lifetime of its product, but if there are any off the shelf components available already and are less expansive, why not go with that ?
Microsoft tried that solution with xbox1 (a modified pentium3 at 733mhz + a modified geforce3 and a 64Mb RAM) I do believe that worked well for them, at least better than the scandal of 1 billion+$ they lost due to prod problems of the xbox360, and another 1billion$ they lost for research and development.
DuckThor Evil
Legend
It most definitely did not work better for them, they were burned by those Xbox deals and MS lost a lot of money back then on their Xbox business, which was one of the main reasons for them killing the Xbox 1 so soon.
Of the shelf parts are always going to be a problem because they are near enough fixed price which is fine at the start but when your trying to get you console under 150 pounds in the later stages of the cycle its a nightmare. Also of you don't own the up of the chips you can't shrink them or combine when it would make financial sense.
You are stick like MS with the first Xbox waiting for nvidia to shrink a GPU that they don't care about because they are on a percentage.
You are stick like MS with the first Xbox waiting for nvidia to shrink a GPU that they don't care about because they are on a percentage.
DoctorFouad
Newcomer
I dont want here to be the guy defending off the shelf parts for consoles, I love console hardware because its generally innovative, engineers working hard to find solutions to create a hardware that is not expansive but at the same time competitive with PC hardware in the short run and very flexible for developers in the long run. But if this time by going innovative means a lot less powerful and not that much less expansive than available off the shelf PC hardware, I wont defend an innovative SOI APU...
regarding the argument of not using off the shelf hardware because console manufacturers wont have ownership rights on those hardware parts they bought off the shelf not allowing them to Control the manufacturing process/affecting the cost of manufacturing/Shrinking the Chips/combining the Chips...etc , this dosent have to be like this, microsoft did have problems with off the shelf components from Intel and Nvidia not because of inherent caracteristics of those chips and this kind of business, but simply because microsoft didnt negociate their contracts that well with nvidia and intel.
Sony for example did bought an important off the shelf component for its PS3, the RSX chip which basically is a modified 7800 GTX. This didnt prevent them from shrinking the Chipset. It all depends on how you negociate your contract.
I do understand however that a lot of people in this forum are very reluctant about the idea of negociating a processor agreement with Intel, thinking that Intel dosent like to share its technology with others, I dont believe that, I do believe that any for profit enterprise like profits, it just could be that AMD won the contracts because they accepted less money, but again does it mean necessarily its a better hardware or in the long run not a wrong decision ? imagine sony ps4 with an i3 or i5 processor, that would alleviate all develoeprs concernes for difficulty of programming for sony consoles, and at the same time would put microsoft on a very incomfortable position...
arijoytunir
Regular
according to the rumors , it looks like ps4 is being designed with developers in mind . Ps4 will be using off the shelf hardware to make the development of games easy . Ps vita was also designed with developers in mind ; and its a great piece of hardware . But there are not many 3rd party games . will ps4 be in a similar situation like vita ?
Reading through the kind of last 5 pages of this thread is apparent that no one understands the parts they're comparing...
One person claimed a Core 2 Quad is several times faster then any other processor that was available in 2005..... Is that a joke?
Clock for clock Core 2 Quads still offer more performance then pretty much any AMD CPU.... AMD are that far behind Intel...
Is it because that none of you are PC gamers and have never really used the hardware your comparing or bringing up?
One person claimed a Core 2 Quad is several times faster then any other processor that was available in 2005..... Is that a joke?
Clock for clock Core 2 Quads still offer more performance then pretty much any AMD CPU.... AMD are that far behind Intel...
Is it because that none of you are PC gamers and have never really used the hardware your comparing or bringing up?
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2012/11/06/amd-fx-8350-review/5
Latest Fx-8350 is about 60% faster than a core 2 quad and runs at 4 GHz, so sadly overall you are right.
What the hell happened at AMD? I'm sure Microsoft and Sony went with them because of their GFX knowledge and flexibility in designing semi custom hardware rather than their CPU design skills. Also I guess they are pretty desperate and really need the work so would have been very competitive price wise. Maybe they really have also worked out HSA as well which would have massive benefits in a console design.
Latest Fx-8350 is about 60% faster than a core 2 quad and runs at 4 GHz, so sadly overall you are right.
What the hell happened at AMD? I'm sure Microsoft and Sony went with them because of their GFX knowledge and flexibility in designing semi custom hardware rather than their CPU design skills. Also I guess they are pretty desperate and really need the work so would have been very competitive price wise. Maybe they really have also worked out HSA as well which would have massive benefits in a console design.
Moved SteamBox discussion over to it's respective thread: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=62697
Easier to get the CPU and GPU from the same place, more control and tighter relationship between the components.
That has to be reason as from a power consumption and performance point of view there's no reason to go with AMD over Intel.
I was talking about peak FP throughput... A Core 2 Quad has 4x the peak FP throughput than an Athlon 64 X2, at the same clock speed. Hence, the Core 2 Quad benchmark you linked is irrelevant when comparing the Xbox 360 to 2005 PC hardware.
I never linked to any benchmark and 4x the throughput with twice the cores isn't exactly several times like claimed is it?
It was another user. "several" means "more than two but fewer than many".
Albofighter
Newcomer
It sucks that AMD is doing so bad as a company plus all the delays they've had makes microsoft and sony get older hardware by the time the new consoles come out. I still wonder what that crytek dev meant when he said next gen consoles are not that much better then today's high end pcs...I wouldn't mind that.
That guy AGneis or whatever from Gaf said we will find out more about one of the consoles very soon. I hope it's microsoft announcing and releasign xbox3 first because I'm confident they will have a decent system at the very least. They are doing much better as a company then sony right now. This way there would be a lot more pressure on sony to match their hardware power if not surpass it. Then everyone would get a strong system that should suffice for the next 5 years or so.
That guy AGneis or whatever from Gaf said we will find out more about one of the consoles very soon. I hope it's microsoft announcing and releasign xbox3 first because I'm confident they will have a decent system at the very least. They are doing much better as a company then sony right now. This way there would be a lot more pressure on sony to match their hardware power if not surpass it. Then everyone would get a strong system that should suffice for the next 5 years or so.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
By now Sony is probably beyond the point of any real fundemental changes to the chips so in the case of xbox720 being much faster, there isn't much they could do even if they wanted.
Besides, it's also a matter of investment vs return. Would it really be smart for Sony, in their current state (or any state at all if you think about it) to potentially lose a lot of money just so they can claim they have the fastest console? Having the fastest console doesn't mean you will make the most money at the end of the day.
Besides, it's also a matter of investment vs return. Would it really be smart for Sony, in their current state (or any state at all if you think about it) to potentially lose a lot of money just so they can claim they have the fastest console? Having the fastest console doesn't mean you will make the most money at the end of the day.
upnorthsox
Veteran
We'll be hearing about both very soon. Publically traded Devs will need to include next gen games in their fiscal yr forecasts. Sony and MS themselves will need to do the same.
You also want to get the hype going as early as possible. That's free publicity and allows for push advertising near launch instead of bogged down in explaining what you're product is.
If you wait too long and your competitor anounces first, you lose the initiative. If you wait too long you risk leaks from other sources and lose control of the message.
Frankly, it's been amazing that both have been able to keep a lid on things as well as they have. Christmas though is the last real reason to stay quiet, after that the risks increase daily by staying quiet.
You also want to get the hype going as early as possible. That's free publicity and allows for push advertising near launch instead of bogged down in explaining what you're product is.
If you wait too long and your competitor anounces first, you lose the initiative. If you wait too long you risk leaks from other sources and lose control of the message.
Frankly, it's been amazing that both have been able to keep a lid on things as well as they have. Christmas though is the last real reason to stay quiet, after that the risks increase daily by staying quiet.
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