Power On: The Story of Xbox [Documentary 6 Parts]

[eastmen]

I wonder how you feel about XBOX then

You can read my first post in this thread to figure it out.

Microsoft has had its ups and downs in the console space just like the other two players in the market and just like the majority of the companies in the market historically

 

[BitByte]

ah so the ps1 and ps2 were highly inflated in sales due to the disc drives failing at absurd rates.

Yes, they were inflated. To the same extent as the 360? Nope. The 360's failure rates were in a category of it's own. If you refer to the Ps2 failure rates as ridiculous, then I'm not really sure there's a word in the dictionary to describe the Xbox 360's failure rates prior to the fix. Not only did the 360 have RROD issues but disc drive issues and a whole host of other issues. I'm sorry but objectively speaking, the two are not even comparable.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

If the point you are making is that Xbox's biggest commercial success was no better than PlayStation's biggest commercial failure, then you made it well. But that would be a really weird point to make whilst not mentioning that Wii easily outsold both.

I think the point is that for that generation, MS managed to grow their install base significantly while Sony managed to shrink their user base significantly. So the generation for MS was a great success despite the early onset of RROD while for Sony the PS3 was, if not a disaster as they managed to stabilize and stop the bleeding over the course of the generation, was certainly not a success.

Of course, then MS went and threw all that in the dumpster with the next generation. Although much like Sony with the PS3, they managed to stop the bleeding as the generation went on, but it was certainly still not good.

And now we have a generation that is in a weird situation where production capacity is the primary driver for the size of the install bases of the two console makers instead of demand for the consoles being the primary driver. Whoever can secure enough supply of components for their console will be the one with the larger install base over 1 year after launch.

Noteworthy since PS5 is now slightly behind PS4 in sales despite blowing it out of the water early in this generation and demand still being strong.

Regards,
SB

 

[eastmen]

I think the point is that for that generation, MS managed to grow their install base significantly while Sony managed to shrink their user base significantly. So the generation for MS was a great success despite the early onset of RROD while for Sony the PS3 was, if not a disaster as they managed to stabilize and stop the bleeding over the course of the generation, was certainly not a success.

Of course, then MS went and threw all that in the dumpster with the next generation.

And now we have a generation that is in a weird situation where production capacity is the primary driver for the size of the install bases of the two console makers instead of demand for the consoles being the primary driver. Whoever can secure enough supply of components for their console will be the one with the larger install base over 1 year after launch.

Regards,
SB

It's tough to say what MS ultimately did hardware wise. They were most likely sitting in between the xbox and the 360 in unit sales. I'd wager close to 60m spread across the one/s/x. Perhaps this generation they will out perform the 360.

Yes, they were inflated. To the same extent as the 360? Nope. The 360's failure rates were in a category of it's own. If you refer to the Ps2 failure rates as ridiculous, then I'm not really sure there's a word in the dictionary to describe the Xbox 360's failure rates prior to the fix. Not only did the 360 have RROD issues but disc drive issues and a whole host of other issues. I'm sorry but objectively speaking, the two are not even comparable.

I dunno , the playstation and playstation 2 cd/dvd drive issues were extremely wide spread at the start of the generations. The internet wasn't what it was in the xbox 360 generation so who knows the extent. When I was at game stop we'd get people in daily with dead disc drives. There were class action suits from that as well

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I think the point is that for that generation, MS managed to grow their install base significantly while Sony managed to shrink their user base significantly.

Then it flipped. So having the odd good or bad generation really means nothing in the long term.

What you can take from this is when Microsoft made a good competitive Xbox is sold greater than other generations. When Sony made a badly competitive PlayStaton, it sold less than other generations. So kind of what you would expect, really.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Then it flipped. So having the odd good or bad generation really means nothing in the long term.

What you can take from this is when Microsoft made a good competitive Xbox is sold greater than other generations. When Sony made a badly competitive PlayStaton, it sold less than other generations. So kind of what you would expect, really.

Yup. It basically shows that past performance is not an indicator of present or future performance. It also shows that both MS and Sony are equally capable of succeeding or failing in the console market ... or any other market.

Regards,
SB

 

[Deleted member 11852]

both MS and Sony are equally capable of succeeding or failing in the console market ... or any other market.

I don't think this is true. Look at mobile phones. How are both companies doing in this market?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I don't think this is true. Look at mobile phones. How are both companies doing in this market?

Or look at the TV market. Or the mobile music player market back in the 2000s. MD players? E-ink readers (I loved my Sony eReader, but it basically failed in the market). Sony's PC business? Sony as a corporation aren't immune to missteps in various markets. Same goes for MS and any other corporation.

Regards,
SB

 

[see colon]

PlayStation's biggest commercial failure

No one is talking about the Vita here. PS5 is about to overtake it I think.

Yes, they were inflated. To the same extent as the 360? Nope. The 360's failure rates were in a category of it's own. If you refer to the Ps2 failure rates as ridiculous, then I'm not really sure there's a word in the dictionary to describe the Xbox 360's failure rates prior to the fix. Not only did the 360 have RROD issues but disc drive issues and a whole host of other issues. I'm sorry but objectively speaking, the two are not even comparable.

Xbox's RROD woes were only in the first 2 years or so of production. Repairing PS2 drive failures are the reason I could pay my mortgage for a while. They had read issues across all revisions. Fixing 360 RROD's mostly stopped with Zephyr, so basically anything made before 2007. I'm not saying it doesn't happen to later ones, just that it's much less likely. Nowadays, if you have a 360 that works, it's probably good to go. If it reads one game, it will likely read them all. That couldn't be said about PS2's 5 years ago (making them the same age as a 360 at this time). It's pretty common for them to not read dual layer DVDs, or CDs, or in the rare case, they will read dual layer DVDs but not single layer.

Although, recently some models of the 360 slim do this things where an array of fuses go bad and the system thinks it's overheating. The fan ramps way up and it tells you it has to shut down but really it's a sensor error.

 

[orangpelupa]

No one is talking about the Vita here. PS5 is about to overtake it I think.


Xbox's RROD woes were only in the first 2 years or so of production. Repairing PS2 drive failures are the reason I could pay my mortgage for a while. They had read issues across all revisions. Fixing 360 RROD's mostly stopped with Zephyr, so basically anything made before 2007. I'm not saying it doesn't happen to later ones, just that it's much less likely. Nowadays, if you have a 360 that works, it's probably good to go. If it reads one game, it will likely read them all. That couldn't be said about PS2's 5 years ago (making them the same age as a 360 at this time). It's pretty common for them to not read dual layer DVDs, or CDs, or in the rare case, they will read dual layer DVDs but not single layer.

Although, recently some models of the 360 slim do this things where an array of fuses go bad and the system thinks it's overheating. The fan ramps way up and it tells you it has to shut down but really it's a sensor error.

IIRC that disc read error issue also happen on ps2 slim. The solution was by installing a modchip on it that have build in laser power limiter.


It was dubbed as DRE (disc read error) for a catch all term related to ps2 jumbo and slim disc read issue iirc

 

[Nesh]

Or look at the TV market. Or the mobile music player market back in the 2000s. MD players? E-ink readers (I loved my Sony eReader, but it basically failed in the market). Sony's PC business? Sony as a corporation aren't immune to missteps in various markets. Same goes for MS and any other corporation.

Regards,
SB

MS has a huge advantage though. They have an gargantuan monopoly in the PC market, that neither Sony or Nintendo have. Its vast and brings billions of profits to subsidize and experiment with products and services, Even failed ones until they succeed. Like the original XBOX.

 

[Nesh]

Xbox's RROD woes were only in the first 2 years or so of production.
Repairing PS2 drive failures are the reason I could pay my mortgage for a while. They had read issues across all revisions. Fixing 360 RROD's mostly stopped with Zephyr, so basically anything made before 2007. I'm not saying it doesn't happen to later ones, just that it's much less likely. Nowadays, if you have a 360 that works, it's probably good to go. If it reads one game, it will likely read them all. That couldn't be said about PS2's 5 years ago (making them the same age as a 360 at this time). It's pretty common for them to not read dual layer DVDs, or CDs, or in the rare case, they will read dual layer DVDs but not single layer.

Although, recently some models of the 360 slim do this things where an array of fuses go bad and the system thinks it's overheating. The fan ramps way up and it tells you it has to shut down but really it's a sensor error.

I disagree that it was just for the first 2 years. One of my friend had 3 or 4 360's get broken across the 360's whole lifespan. Even his newest slim version died.
The 360 was reading all games once fixed but the fear of RROD or a broken disk tray was still there and likely to happen again.
Considering that almost anyone owned a PS2 it is normal to see a lot and more broken PS2's.
I had the original PS2 phat model and mine stopped reading disks after years of use at some point. It was fixed by opening it and readjusting the lens. But it stopped reading CDs. Which in that case it was no problem because barely any games were released on CDs. Replacing the lens fully was a full corrective solution though

 

[BRiT]

One of my friend had 3 or 4 360's get broken across the 360's whole lifespan. Even his newest slim version died.

And I know people who had/have original launch X360s which still function to this day. Anecdotes being what they are...

 

[mr magoo]

And I know people who had/have original launch X360s which still function to this day. Anecdotes being what they are...

My org white one died after 3-4 years but it wasn't heavy used. The newer version (back one) works to this day, i still use it from time to time when my brother in law kids come by.
He also have black x360 with kinect wich we still use. The org x360 were defective for sure but newer versions were very solid. I know personally a lot of people who still have their 360 and are fully functional without any problems.

 

[Nesh]

And I know people who had/have original launch X360s which still function to this day. Anecdotes being what they are...

Nobody claimed all X360's die

 

[Deleted member 11852]

MS has a huge advantage though. They have an gargantuan monopoly in the PC market, that neither Sony or Nintendo have. Its vast and brings billions of profits to subsidize and experiment with products and services, Even failed ones until they succeed. Like the original XBOX.

This is one of reasons cited by those calling to break up big tech companies. When you can write off billions, you can enter a new market and eat losses whereas the competition often cannot. Not always though, somethings you realise early on that it's not going to pan out. Look at Microsoft's acquisition of Nokia.

Let's not forget that Sony lost billions and billions keeping numerous consumer product divisions running when they weren't profitable, including Vaio PCs, lower-end cameras, masses and masses of mobile phones, a bonkers amount of hifi equipment and so on.

 

[goonergaz]

If the point you are making is that Xbox's biggest commercial success was no better than PlayStation's biggest commercial failure, then you made it well. But that would be a really weird point to make whilst not mentioning that Wii easily outsold both.

Ironic and totally lost on some posters, apparently X360 was a huge success and PS3 was the worst failure ever. The lowest selling PlayStation sold more than the highest selling XBox.

And I know people who had/have original launch X360s which still function to this day. Anecdotes being what they are...

Mate of mine says the same thing…I think the only original part is the case! Lol

 

[goonergaz]

1) The ps1 competed against a broke sega and 18 month late nintendo
2) Saturn did not have a year head start. Both consoles were released within months of each other . Saturn Nov 1994 , May/July 95 for NA/EU. Playstation Dec 94 for japan and sept for na/ eu.
3) Sure because one of its competitors was just a video game company and the other was making video games and love hotels. mean while MS went up against a huge multimedia conglomerate and a love hotel company.
4) That is true of all territories.

1) again, an established Sega with head start vs a first console
2) just up to 8 months then - whatever, it’s enough…can you imagine what would happen this gen with a 6 month head start?
3) lol poor old MS - not even sure what you’re saying …it was true David and Goliath lol
4) yes, but US is the biggest market and WW is a better gauge of a ‘whole’ success vs you using just one territory

Did Sony turn the ps3 around ? Last I look it still sold a third less than the ps2 it also shipped about 13 million less than the ps1 . Looks like as per wikipedia ps3 with 87.4 million unit ships , ps1 with 102.5m units sold , ps2 with 155m units shipped

Do you even read what you write? What math makes 87 one third 155!? Did you forget that PS2 launched at £300, came quickly down to £200 and ended at £100? Did you forget PS2 had no real competition (as in selling in any decent numbers)? Looking at that PS3 sold around 15% of the hugely successful PS1!

 

[goonergaz]

Such a stunning victory tho going from 155m units sold to 87.4m shipped while your competition goes from 24m to 84m.

I think you’re totally miss reading - no-one is saying it was a success, likewise I’m not sure you can say ‘went from 24m to 84m’ in such a black and white comparison.

Also, no-one is saying X360 was a failure, more that it didn’t take advantage and didn’t do as well as one might expect. Think of it this way, if you broke down the launches and put everything on a bit of paper - with no knowledge of the outcome- you’d be hard pressed to suggest anything other than a clear MS victory.

I like football analogies, Liverpool had a really pants first half against Arsenal and gave them a 3-0 lead by half time, the match ended 3-3. Arsenal wouldn’t have expected any points, so a draw is considered a good result, but really, with the half time lead people would have expected Arsenal to see them off.

Here’s another thing, if MS hadn’t had Kinect they would have sold even less - that thing sold lots of h/w.

Going back to the PS3 era - that generation had the Wii to contend with too, that was a total unknown, so you had;
Worst console launch
Highest price
Arrogance (get 2 jobs)
The mess with the controller (boomerang and then no rumble)
Vs
2 strong cheaper alternatives
1 with a head start so good selection of games and ‘friends already have one’
Better online
etc

That PS3 sold as well as it did is a miracle really.

 

[mr magoo]

I think you’re totally miss reading - no-one is saying it was a success, likewise I’m not sure you can say ‘went from 24m to 84m’ in such a black and white comparison.

Also, no-one is saying X360 was a failure, more that it didn’t take advantage and didn’t do as well as one might expect. Think of it this way, if you broke down the launches and put everything on a bit of paper - with no knowledge of the outcome- you’d be hard pressed to suggest anything other than a clear MS victory.

I like football analogies, Liverpool had a really pants first half against Arsenal and gave them a 3-0 lead by half time, the match ended 3-3. Arsenal wouldn’t have expected any points, so a draw is considered a good result, but really, with the half time lead people would have expected Arsenal to see them off.

Here’s another thing, if MS hadn’t had Kinect they would have sold even less - that thing sold lots of h/w.

Going back to the PS3 era - that generation had the Wii to contend with too, that was a total unknown, so you had;
Worst console launch
Highest price
Arrogance (get 2 jobs)
The mess with the controller (boomerang and then no rumble)
Vs
2 strong cheaper alternatives
1 with a head start so good selection of games and ‘friends already have one’
Better online
etc

That PS3 sold as well as it did is a miracle really.

very very strong fan base tbh, and many people bought ps3 later because they already played almost everything they wanted on x360.