Positive developments for Blu-ray

Carl B

Friends call me xbd
Legend
Looks like it's been a 'Good Day for Blu-Ray.'

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Developments include the announcement of added anti-piracy measures and a pullback in support for this winter's HD-DVD launch.
 
some publishers commited do HD DVD have decreased the number of HD DVD titles for their christmas 2005 line-up

maybe it has to do with first xbox 360 models being without dvd hd ?
without support from xbox360 the number of HD DVD player will decrase from some million units to ??
 
SCREW blu-ray. I want good news for the CONSUMER!!! GRRRR!! Yay, more DRM!!! Yay!! God bleeping bleepity bleepy bleep bleep bleeps. huff puff... ahem... I'm better now.

Seriously, though, I'm getting tired of this, the more DRM we see the crappier the format will in effect be for the consumer. I'm getting tired of the *AA's inability to deal with the changing times. DRM like this is about as real a solution as a band-aid on a severed limb.

With that out of my system, it looks like Blu-ray's gonna pretty much eat the earth out from under HD-DVD if this is true AND isn't just some sort of uniformed hype on the site's part - doesn't seem that way though. At least it's the better standard that's winning, even if it is DRM'd up the wazoo.
 
Mefisutoferesu said:
With that out of my system, it looks like Blu-ray's gonna pretty much eat the earth out from under HD-DVD if this is true AND isn't just some sort of uniformed hype on the site's part.

Oh it's not hype, this is the real deal.
 
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Yeah, I know, you're right.

I wonder what's left for HD-DVD at the moment. Are there any studios still fully commited to HD-DVD alone? What about hardware producers? Toshiba's the only producing them come this fall/winter, but are there any others still signed on? Frankly, it doesn't look like there's much of any chance left for HD-DVD. The market's NOT going to explode out of the gate and now with such a meager showing do they stand a chance?

By the by, sorry to any and all for the previous outburst, but I really am getting fed up with DRM and region coding and all the malarky involved. I'm sure you can understand.
 
Mefisutoferesu said:
SCREW blu-ray. I want good news for the CONSUMER!!! GRRRR!! Yay, more DRM!!! Yay!! God bleeping bleepity bleepy bleep bleep bleeps. huff puff... ahem... I'm better now.
I see where you're coming from, but as long as the DRM is transparent and doesn't uckf with the viewer's enjoyment of the dearly bought and paid for product, it doesn't really matter. IE, DRM that reduces quality or blocks viewing of movies on DVI devices without HDCP = BAD DRM. DRM that just sits there on the disc going "...." like people that doesn't say anything in japanese comics = GOOD DRM.

What I would like to see is an end to these BR vs. HDDVD threads. Who cares?! It's just a piece of plastic for crying out loud and here people go on about these standards as if their entire life and existence hinges on the success of their preferred format! It's pathetic, these people CLEARLY need to get themselves laid! :LOL:
 
I agree that the format war in and of itself is not important to the consoles so to speak, but at the same time, the stronger blu-ray does, the more appealing PS3 becomes (ostensibly). For myself, since I know a PS3 purchase is nearly a forgone conclusion anyway, I can't lie and say I wouldn't be pleased if blu-ray didn't also wind up the 'victor' format.
 
Guden Oden said:
get themselves laid! :LOL:

Damn, i'm all for that!!!

As far as this news story, it is pretty significant in this whole Epic battle between two pieces of plastic. I think the DRM is good (as Guden Oden said) when it doesn't affect the customer in a negative way If they didn't do anything wrong. But with the advent of "water marked media" I guess there will be no way to really backup your Movies (errrr..heh.. >.>)..but with the proposed strength of Blu-Rays protective coating...that should be a non issue (hopefully).

EDIT: Off Topic: What happened to Shifty Geezer....I haven't seen him post for a while..and I quite enjoyed reading his posts...
 
Currently, the studios are almost evenly split between the two camps. This is really bad. At least for me, I will not invest anything in either format until I am sure my investment is not going to be a waste. PS3 is a bit different,though. It just happened to use a BD drive.

As for the "BD+". It is actually an implementation of SPDC (Self Protecting Digital Contents) developed by Cryptography Research. What it does is that the BD players run a SPDC VM (Virtual Machine) and the BD disks come with SPDC codes that the studios write (not the player manufacturers). If the player is known to have been compromised, the code in the disk can overwrite the code in the player.

For me, that IS a bit scary, trusting the studios to write bug-free code... Sure, the scenario may be a bit theoretical, but still, scary because if something does not work, one may not know who to call (the CE company or the studio).

BTW, the recent Fox announcement that they will go with BD was primarily because of this feature, I've heard.

Hong.
 
BD+/SPDC is way scary. Here's a good white paper:

http://www.cryptography.com/resources/whitepapers/SelfProtectingContent.pdf

The way BD+/SPDC works is you have a code module on the disc that must be loaded and executed to decrypt the movie, and part of what that code module can do is probe to see if the player's codecs/firmware/hardware have been tampered with, update the firmware of the player, and also uniquely watermark the player output so they can trace the source of a copy.

So for every new release, they can potentially put new and different encryption mechanisms on the disc, new watermarking methods, and new and different hardware integrity checks -- so it's not like breaking DVD's CSS where once you've figured out the one single algorithm you're done -- BD discs could potentially have hundreds of different protection systems, and to make a cracked player work with all of them is much harder than just one.

An analogy on the PC would be like downloading a EXE which is a player for an encrypted video packaged in the same file. As soon as you run that EXE, it flashes your system's firmware, checks to see if you have any software it doesn't like installed, etc, and only decrypts and plays the movie once it's satisified your system is acceptable. If you sat down and reverse engineered the EXE, you could probably figure out how to decrypt the movie without running the EXE, but the next movie you download will have a different player EXE, which means you'll have to crack the next one completely differently.

The flip-side is such a system is probably really fragile, and could quite possibly break in all sorts of nasty unintended ways, locking out legitimate users on legitimate but slightly non-compliant players, which is one of the reasons I understand that SPDC was rejected for HD DVD.
 
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aaaaa00 said:
The flip-side is such a system is probably really fragile, and could quite possibly break in all sorts of nasty unintended ways, locking out legitimate users on legitimate but slightly non-compliant players, which is one of the reasons I understand that SPDC was rejected for HD DVD.

I agree with this notion; hopefully it ends up being not too much of a problem.

Still, as the liable party in this case would be the hardware manufacturer, by honoring warranties, and since Blu-ray seems to have the lion's share of the hardware manufacturers aboard, the BDA must feel fairly confident as to their implementation.

I guess we won't really know one way or the other until we're into th Blu-ray lifecycle, but I could definitely see how the movie studios would go for this.
 
aaaaa00 said:
locking out legitimate users on legitimate but slightly non-compliant players, which is one of the reasons I understand that SPDC was rejected for HD DVD.
Today most of PC games discs are protected by copy-protection technology such as SecuROM/StarForce/AlphaROM, and some legitimate users encounter malfunction of those technologies. But why they encounter those problems is because those protection technologies are not standardized and not agreed by hardware/software manufacturers. BD+ is an agreed standard which those who want BD logo on their products have to comply with, so "legitimate but slightly non-compliant players" are theoretically nonexsistent, unless they are defective BD-ROM players.
 
"whichever media the porn industry embraces will be the winner...they helped fuel vhs and dvd"


Exactly they'll decide the battle once again, it's too funny. Everyone bow to the power of the porn
 
c0_re said:
"whichever media the porn industry embraces will be the winner...they helped fuel vhs and dvd"


Exactly they'll decide the battle once again, it's too funny. Everyone bow to the power of the porn

I haven't EVER bought a porn that was on DVD or VHS. I've always downloaded it (BitTorrent is my friend ~_~,).

errrr...I don't watch porn...I just help seed files .... >.>

*runs out to his car and drives away

If anything the fact that the security structure is umbrellad under one standard (as one said) it can only help protect the consumers from Blu-Ray disks or players wrongly locking them out.
 
Anyway it's true the porn industry has an outsized voice in determining what format gets chosen, but then again if all of Hollywood ends up falling to one or the other, I don't see the porn industry as really jumping on anyone other than the winner's bandwagon.

On the side, after reading BlueTsunami's post it makes me think that if anything, enhanced DRM might be embraced by the porn industry even more readily than it was embraced by Fox. :)
 
xbdestroya said:
Anyway it's true the porn industry has an outsized voice in determining what format gets chosen, but then again if all of Hollywood ends up falling to one or the other, I don't see the porn industry as really jumping on anyone other than the winner's bandwagon.

On the side, after reading BlueTsunami's post it makes me think that if anything, enhanced DRM might be embraced by the porn industry even more readily than it was embraced by Fox. :)

HAhAhahah...oh noooooOoosss!! I want teh free porn!!!

But yeah, thats a great point, how the porn industry would probably embrace this the most due to piracy. Although..most porn thats pirated are ripped off of websites...I think I read a study that stated that...some type of "Porn Piracy Whitepapers"...

>.>
 
one said:
But why they encounter those problems is because those protection technologies are not standardized and not agreed by hardware/software manufacturers. BD+ is an agreed standard which those who want BD logo on their products have to comply with, so "legitimate but slightly non-compliant players" are theoretically nonexsistent, unless they are defective BD-ROM players.

The whole point of SPDC/BD+ is that the copy protection system is embedded in the media itself and is controlled by the studios, not the hardware developers.

The SPDC/BD+ describes the virtual machine and the infrastructure that the protection system runs in, not the protection mechanisms themselves. So the studios are free to invent whatever non-standard protection checks and encryption methods they want -- which effectively means EVERY disc will have a non-standard protection technology -- otherwise the whole point of SPDC/BD+ is defeated.

In any case, regardless of how good the QA standards are, some players will get released that have bugs in them or do not implement some things correctly, especially at launch. Problems happened with the much simpler DVD spec and it'd be foolish to think the same won't happen with BD or HD DVD.

SPDC/BD+ is going to require a ton more complexity (though this is not necessarily an impossible barrier) plus the tolerances for bugs in consumer electronics devices are much lower than for PCs to begin with. So I don't find it difficult to believe that this will result in either problems for end users, or very little adoption of SPDC/BD+.
 
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serenity said:
Another other source to back this information up, is that site reliable ? :-?

Yes, it's reliable. ;)

Ok from the article:

...the BDA has announced that they will incorporate into their Blu-ray format the most comprehensive security yet seen in optical media...

...the Wall Street Journal is reporting that the steam seems to have gone out of HD-DVD's 'first mover' advantage...

It would seem quite easy for you to verify those sources and claims should you choose to do so. Why do I have the feeling you have an in-built 'selective skepticism' mechanism?
 
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