Poll : XB360 owners. Are you getting HDDVD addon?

What is your interest in the HDVD addon - for XB360 owners only

  • Own an HDTV, will get HDDVD addon

    Votes: 33 29.5%
  • Own an HDTV, will wait and see which format prevails

    Votes: 40 35.7%
  • Own an HDTV, don't care for HD movies

    Votes: 16 14.3%
  • Don't own HDTV, will get HDDVD addon now and HDTV later

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Don't own HDTV, plan to get HDDVD addon when do

    Votes: 4 3.6%
  • Don't own HDTV, will see what format prevails

    Votes: 18 16.1%

  • Total voters
    112
Your logic is flawed because..1. Do you think the PS3 will be in a vacuum by mid-2008 and your discounting Blu-ray players as well going down in price.2. And price is not the only sole factor for someone to buy into HD format.
This is going off topic. The thread wasn't a 'which will win, HDDVD or BRD?' topic. It was just asking for people's interests in the capabilities that their console's provide, wth a few loose analyses on the results (which is what you do with stats ;)). There's no point arguing about player price drops or consumer awareness or whatnot, because that's got nothing to do with consoles and isn't the topic!
 
The smart thing would be to see the add, determine how well it compares to the Toshiba HD-A1 and see if it's worth your money.

If it is, buy one. If not, don't and you can still continue to play games on the 360 as usual.

Personally, I expect the HD content to look about the same. What I don't expect is that upscaling of SD DVD's to be as good as the A1.
 
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This is going off topic. The thread wasn't a 'which will win, HDDVD or BRD?' topic. It was just asking for people's interests in the capabilities that their console's provide, wth a few loose analyses on the results (which is what you do with stats ;)). There's no point arguing about player price drops or consumer awareness or whatnot, because that's got nothing to do with consoles and isn't the topic!

How do you know thats the direction I was heading?...

You're coming in from left field...and have taken the thread off the subject...The point I made is that an analysis of the HDDVD for the X360 is not a certain one! And by the way those..."player price drops or consumer awareness" have lots to do with consoles.
 
[snip]

Personally, I expect the HD content to look about the same. What I don't expect is that upscaling of SD DVD's to be as good as the A1.

This is my greatest hesitation for the device, can it equal or surpass the A1 in upscaling quality...but I digress, and Shifty is right, lets get it back on track.
 
Reminder: this is only to inform people about 1080i/1080p. Please don't turn this into HD DVD vs. Blu Ray or Samsung vs. Toshiba.

For 1080i/1080p I HIGHLY recommend people read this article:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/blu-ray_2.htm

"At this point we should address what can only be characterized as a hoax—the notion that Blu-ray must be technically superior to HD-DVD because the Samsung player outputs 1080p, whereas the Toshiba player is "only 1080i." One high-end home theater retailer told me last weekend that the reason you pay $1000 for the Blu-ray player is for the "higher resolution 1080p output." This is absolute baloney. If you encounter any retail sales rep feeding you this line, keep your wallet in your pocket and leave the store.

The truth is this: The Toshiba HD-DVD player outputs 1080i, and the Samsung Blu-ray player outputs both 1080i and 1080p. What they fail to mention is that it makes absolutely no difference which transmission format you use—feeding 1080i or 1080p into your projector or HDTV will give you the exact same picture. Why? Both disc formats encode film material in progressive scan 1080p at 24 frames per second. It does not matter whether you output this data in 1080i or 1080p since all 1080 lines of information on the disc are fed into your video display either way. The only difference is the order in which they are transmitted. If they are fed in progressive order (1080p), the video display will process them in that order. If they are fed in interlaced format (1080i), the video display simply reassembles them into their original progressive scan order. Either way all 1080 lines per frame that are on the disc make it into the projector or TV. The fact is, if you happen to have the Samsung Blu-ray player and a video display that takes both 1080i and 1080p, you can switch the player back and forth between 1080i and 1080p output and see absolutely no difference in the picture. So this notion that the Blu-ray player is worth more money due to 1080p output is nonsense.

(As a side note, 1080p could offer a subtle improvement in motion smoothness if (a) the player was able to output at 24 frames per second, and (b) you happened to have a video display that could take 1080p/24, which is a rarity these days. In the future it is probable that both HD-DVD and Blu-ray players will output 1080p/24. But neither one does it today, so it is not relevant to the present competition between the formats.)

So why all the confusion? If live video is originally captured with an HD video camera in 1080p, that is a much higher resolution than capturing in 1080i. The reason is that when an HD camera captures in 1080i, it is scanning 540 odd lines at one moment in time, and the 540 even lines at a subsequent moment in time. So in motion sequences, vertical resolution drops to 540 lines rather than 1080. Furthermore, interlaced capture produces motion offsets in the reassembled frame, resulting in the interlacing artifacts that people don't like. That does not occur with either HD-DVD or Blu-ray 1080p film-sourced material since it is all progressively scanned from film frames that represent single moments in time. So this material can be transmitted from the player to the display via 1080i without introducing interlacing artifacts."
 
Well, honestly as much trouble as I've had with 3 PS2's (can't read disc error) I'd rather have a seperate HD-DVD addon and use this to play my DVD's/CD/HDDVD's and leave the internal 360's drive alone. I'm not sure how durable the PS3's drive is.....starting to have Ps2 disc read error flashbacks!
 
I couldn't vote in the poll, no option for 360 owners who aren't going to spend money on a dead end format that do own a HDTV and will be going with BR.

I doubt Philips, Samsung, Mitsibishi, or even Hitachi cares at all about the game consoles, much less are counting on game consoles to win the format war.

Actually pretty much every company and movie studio has gone on record saying that the PS3 was a major factor in them choosing BR over HD. MS decided to kill HD-DVD when they insisted on launching early and using a last gen format instead of waiting. When half of the movies in the all time top fifty have no chance of appearing on one format versus seven for the other, media is going to drive sales. I think that is an important element that is being overlooked- HD-DVD does not have a good deal of the major studios backing them in any way whatsoever. As a general example, out of this year's three top grossing films all of them are currently in the exclusive BR camp- and none of those are Sony films.

Much as the PS brand dominates gaming because of the selection of titles, BR has the format war locked down barring an enormous shift by the studios.
 
Looking at the list of studios myself, the vast majority of studios support both with each one having exclusives.

I think calling this a lock for Bluray is way premature (way, way, way premature).
 
As a general example, out of this year's three top grossing films all of them are currently in the exclusive BR camp- and none of those are Sony films.

Just to be sure... globally it went down like this.

#1 Pirates of the Caribbean - BV/Disney (BR Only)
#2 Da Vinci Code - Sony (BR Only)
#3 Ice Age - Fox (BR Only)
#4 X-Men - Fox (BR Only)
#5 MI3 - Paramount (BR & HDDVD)
#6 Cars - Disney (BR Only)
#7 Superman WB (BR & HDDVD)
#8 Over the HEdge DW (BR & HDDVD)
#9 Inside Man - Universal (HDDVD Only)
#10 Poseidon - WB (BR & HDDVD)


So the top 4 grossing films of this year are BR only, and 5 out of the top10 are BR exclusive. HD-DVD has only 1 exclusive.

And of course the timing of the release of Spiderman3 is particularlly favorable to the BR camp. It's going to hit the market at a time when BR players in the form of PS3 are expected to have an already significant install base.
 
Just to be sure... globally it went down like this.

#1 Pirates of the Caribbean - BV/Disney (BR Only)
#2 Da Vinci Code - Sony (BR Only)
#3 Ice Age - Fox (BR Only)
#4 X-Men - Fox (BR Only)
#5 MI3 - Paramount (BR & HDDVD)
#6 Cars - Disney (BR Only)
#7 Superman WB (BR & HDDVD)
#8 Over the HEdge DW (BR & HDDVD)
#9 Inside Man - Universal (HDDVD Only)
#10 Poseidon - WB (BR & HDDVD)


So the top 4 grossing films of this year are BR only, and 5 out of the top10 are BR exclusive. HD-DVD has only 1 exclusive.

And of course the timing of the release of Spiderman3 is particularlly favorable to the BR camp. It's going to hit the market at a time when BR players in the form of PS3 are expected to have an already significant install base.

Pirates and Cars will not be appearing until '07, according to an article I just read. I'm not sure the release dates of everything else.

EDIT: As a personal aside, Disney will not receiving any next-gen money from me, I am tired of re-re-re-re-buying their movies. The A1 upscaling is great and cgi and animation upscaling no almost no bounds; The Incredibles through the A1 = beautiful.
 
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Looking at the list of studios myself, the vast majority of studios support both with each one having exclusives.

Very good point. HD-DVD will be getting top quality exclusives like.... welll..... I'm sure there are a lot. So it won't be Star Wars, X-Men or Spiderman which are all BR exclusive- how many people in to high tech are into those types of movies anyway? ;)

I think calling this a lock for Bluray is way premature (way, way, way premature).

Matsushita, Mitsubishi and Sony are all on board with BR, along with every major studio save Universal films for the time being(Universal is supporting BR- just not with actual releases yet). Top tier manufacturers all backing one standard- Hollywood nigh all backing one standard- and it comes built in to the market leader for the last decade in the home console market assuring a mass market penetration rate that HD can only dream of.

By every metric used to judge a potential market there is no format war- it was over as soon as MS decided to dump HD-DVD as a built in feature for the 360. That pushed the studios over to the BR camp quite firmly and removed pretty much all doubts as to what almost every major player in electronics was going to do. This is FAR more lopsided then Beta v VHS ever was. Matsushita by themselves can win a format war against the rest of the industry(as they have proven)- this time it is almost everyone versus a few small companies(relatively speaking of course ;) ).

This has nothing to do with what format I want to see win, I would have taken LaserDisc over either of the tape based formats in an instant back in the 80s, but that didn't put blinders up stopping me from seeing the obvious conditions of the market and the fact that VHS was going to be the winner without a doubt.
 
it was over as soon as MS decided to dump HD-DVD as a built in feature for the 360.
MS dumped the HD DVD from the 360? As in it was planned at some point? You'll need to back that one up with a source, since all other information seems to be that DVD was the one and only choice since the project's inception.
 
Honestly I'll just wait until one of my consumer whore friends that are obsessed with 360 get one to see if I would appreciate the change.
 
MS dumped the HD DVD from the 360? As in it was planned at some point? You'll need to back that one up with a source, since all other information seems to be that DVD was the one and only choice since the project's inception.

It was an option that they decided to kind of not go with; although now they will sell it as an attatchment. If it was the pack in drive for the 360 despite Sony's prior dominance in the market it would have given Hollywood a clear inidicator that it would have at least ~30 Million users to sell to over the next four years or so(between the 360 and set top boxes). That isn't enough to come close to winning a format war, but it would have helped assure HD a far stronger lineup of titles for the early stages of the game which certainly would have significantly expanded their long term potential(BR still would be the odds on favorite thanks to Matsushita/Mitsubishi/Sony).
 
From Reuters today:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060811/tc_nm/highdefdvd_dc

"Screen Digest expects that 430,000 standalone Blu-ray and HD-DVD players and recorders will be sold in 2006 and 1.35 million in 2007."

People must realise those projections for stand alone players are TINY compared to the projected number of PS3's that are going to invade the market in a few months. Even if only a small fraction of the BR owners go out and buy a couple BR discs its going to be a huge win.

There is a reason why HD-DVD is not getting the Studio backing some people feel it deserves. PS3 is that reason.
 
Thanks for that link. That's the first 'official' predictions I've seen. This shows why much of the industry was backing BRD on the strength of PS3, and why it's important to HDDVD to get it's own console-induced adoption, or PC adoption through MCE PCs. Looking at these poll results, if they're indicative of the general conosle owning populace (for the first year or so at least), at 10 million XB360s sold that's about 3 million HDDVD players, way in advance of the few hundreds of thousands of standalone players. PS3 would be resulting in near 5 million BRD players on HD sets and another 2 million buyers of BRDs, and if the HDDVD device wasn't coming to XB360, the market would be utterly dominated with BRD sales.

It's thus very much in Toshiba's interest to promote HDDVD via the console and perhaps let MS have a real deal on the drive, which will explain why MS are happy to sell it at a low price. Otherwise what reason have MS to release this drive? Why not offer a BRD drive if it's just about supporting multimedia abilities? What are the licensing fees worth for iHD and VC-1? Are they enough that MS would be willing to lose money on the HDDVD drives to gain in returns of a strong HD format?

I can't make out whether this is a Toshiba initiative or a partnership drive for the format.
 
It's thus very much in Toshiba's interest to promote HDDVD via the console and perhaps let MS have a real deal on the drive, which will explain why MS are happy to sell it at a low price. Otherwise what reason have MS to release this drive? Why not offer a BRD drive if it's just about supporting multimedia abilities? What are the licensing fees worth for iHD and VC-1? Are they enough that MS would be willing to lose money on the HDDVD drives to gain in returns of a strong HD format?

MS has a big stake in HD-DVD in its MCE strategy as well. I havent been able to keep up with the MMC wars but IIRC, HD-DVD offered MS additional flexibility in the ability to stream HD-DVD video fro man MCE (or Vista)-equipped PC to an extender (xbox 360). That model has the HD-DVD drive on the PC and allows it to be played on any capable extender in the home. Having this capability promotes the idea of a Media computer in general so if HD-DVD provides that, thats another important reason to back it.

Also, wrt the stand alone players, the breakdown in those sales figures is important. If HD-DVD garners a majority of stand alone sales i think that matters. Price has always been HD-DVDs strength and seems to be a theme throughout all these console/HD media discussions. Whether or not the market flies in the face of Economics will be interesting.

Can someone confirm that universal is creating HD-DVD only? I thought there was no exclusive studio for HD-DVD...
 
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