Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

[Scott_Arm]

But you know, if somebody talks "full BC" you immediately know that API is fat...
It's just common sense.
And PS4 Pro vs XB1X perf in multiplatform games hints at something too... (cough, cough, RE3)

Is RE3 the usual case? I don't keep up on the console comparisons.

Edit: Also, I guess it depends whether you consider DX12 and Vulkan fat APIs. The xbox version of DX12 allows some "closer to the metal" optimizations beyond the PC version, from my understanding.

 

[psorcerer]

Is RE3 the usual case?

Usual case of not a straight PC-port? Seems so.

 

[BRiT]

Is RE3 the usual case?

Absolutely not. It's the anomaly.

 

[chris1515]

But you know, if somebody talks "full BC" you immediately know that API is fat...
It's just common sense.
And PS4 Pro vs XB1X perf in multiplatform games hints at something too... (cough, cough, RE3)

RE3 has just forced native 4k resolution if RE3 had dynamic resolution it would have been better on XB1X.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Usual case of not a straight PC-port? Seems so.

So, what multi-platform games qualify as being not a straight PC port? How about Doom Eternal?

 

[Karamazov]

it's most common with japanese games. hmmm

 

[psorcerer]

So, what multi-platform games qualify as being not a straight PC port? How about Doom Eternal?

Any game that runs without changes on XBSX.

 

[function]

The only people who could answer what happens to a console when the silicon is saturated with workloads are devs writing non-game code to test that, and I imagine NDA's prevent anyone with an SDK trying that. I can well imaging the console overheats and powers down though. That must be what would happen with PS because otherwise Cerny wouldn't have referenced it. Something like XB1X may be engineered with greater tolerances because it's a premium product at a more premium price-point.

Back in MS's hotchips presentation about the 360S they talked about power draw.

https://www.hotchips.org/wp-content/uploads/hc_archives/hc22/HC22.23.215-1-Jensen-XBox360.pdf

Slide 9 shows a "power virus" and it's relative power consumption. 360S was designed to run stably no matter what was thrown at it.

That was 10 years ago though, when chips were a lot smaller and simpler, and the 360S was a lower power refresh trying make good on the troubled early 360s. Things have probably changed.

 

[Globalisateur]

RE3 has just forced native 4k resolution if RE3 had dynamic resolution it would have been better on XB1X.

Not native. With reconstruction.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Any game that runs without changes on XBSX.

Do those even exist? I don't think they do. Also what does that have to do with the playstation version? You're assuming the xbox version is a straight pc port, which you can't know, and then making the assumption that they must not have optimized the playstation version either?

 

[psorcerer]

Do those even exist?

Why not? MSFT was pretty bold about their BC claim.

they must not have optimized the playstation version either?

Optimization is a losers game. Main platform matters a lot. Nothing else.
It's not PS2/XBOX or even PS3/360 anymore. The games are to complex to develop with an abstracted layer.
Maybe PS5/XBSX will be better though, very similar.

 

[BRiT]

Why are you bringing Microsoft into the Sony PS5 thread?

 

[Scott_Arm]

Why not? MSFT was pretty bold about their BC claim.



Optimization is a losers game. Main platform matters a lot. Nothing else.
It's not PS2/XBOX or even PS3/360 anymore. The games are to complex to develop with an abstracted layer.
Maybe PS5/XBSX will be better though, very similar.

No way. There's no way the engine and rendering teams at id, ea, ubi, unreal, unity are not optimizing for each platform. No way. That's why they all have dedicated engine teams now. They need to get the most out of each system.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Back in MS's hotchips presentation about the 360S they talked about power draw.

https://www.hotchips.org/wp-content/uploads/hc_archives/hc22/HC22.23.215-1-Jensen-XBox360.pdf

Slide 9 shows a "power virus" and it's relative power consumption. 360S was designed to run stably no matter what was thrown at it.

That was 10 years ago though, when chips were a lot smaller and simpler, and the 360S was a lower power refresh trying make good on the troubled early 360s. Things have probably changed.

That may have been inspired from the overheating troubles of the original and going with the over-engineered solution. The most interesting data-point is power draw by games. Too Human is what, >85%. Does that point to something like 85% being the expected power draw for a PS5 game?

 

[psorcerer]

No way. There's no way the engine and rendering teams at id, ea, ubi, unreal, unity are not optimizing for each platform. No way. That's why they all have dedicated engine teams now. They need to get the most out of each system.

That's not what I'm saying.

 

[MrFox]

That may have been inspired from the overheating troubles of the original and going with the over-engineered solution. The most interesting data-point is power draw by games. Too Human is what, >85%. Does that point to something like 85% being the expected power draw for a PS5 game?

It's a slim revision, it's not very relevant to the current products. Not only the power is significantly lower, but it's clocked like the launch model, on a process which can go a LOT higher. It's a significant and permanent downclock and it's back when nodes scaled incredibly well.

 

[Scott_Arm]

That's not what I'm saying.

Ok, if I’m misinterpreting then I’m not clear on what you mean.

 

[psorcerer]

Ok, if I’m misinterpreting then I’m not clear on what you mean.

I'm saying that in current gen it's impossible to optimize equally well for all platforms.
Otherwise we would see less whining about Jaguar perf for example. Or more 60 fps titles.
People run into "our game logic bottlenecks everything" not because they don't know what to do. It's in most cases because the game logic is huge, and is changed and fixed up until release.
Engine teams have no time to optimize stuff, there's no window. Current multiplatform games are much closer to PC games than last gen: back then people feared things, "it will not run on PS3, we need to allocate some time for that!", now it's easier, so less time is dedicated.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I'm saying that in current gen it's impossible to optimize equally well for all platforms.
Otherwise we would see less whining about Jaguar perf for example. Or more 60 fps titles.
People run into "our game logic bottlenecks everything" not because they don't know what to do. It's in most cases because the game logic is huge, and is changed and fixed up until release.
Engine teams have no time to optimize stuff, there's no window. Current multiplatform games are much closer to PC games than last gen: back then people feared things, "it will not run on PS3, we need to allocate some time for that!", now it's easier, so less time is dedicated.

There will never be such a thing as perfectly optimized, but I have no doubts that all of the engine teams are heavily optimizing per platform, from start to end of a project.

 

[fehu]

....

So the solution to have better code is making way harder porting it?