Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

Well, it shows they aren't making rash decisions and choosing to sacrifice the single player as some fear. ND realised they can't maintain the vision they had and that'll likely inform future developments across the company. A costly but not immediately dooming lesson. Also, rumours were the game sucked and Bungie knocked it on the head. Maybe it didn't, but the costs to maintain, which ND didn't understand by Bungie did, was the issue?

Assuming the PR isn't just bullshit excuses. ;)
 
orangpelupa said:
the problem was, why the heck did they not released factions, but upgraded. instead of a brand new thing, that borrowed factions name, and cancelled the original factions.
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Cuz someone probably thought they wanted that GAAS money at the top of the company and naughty dog had to throw their hands up and admit they didn't have the resources to deliver on things other gaas games do
 
Inuhanyou said:
Cuz someone probably thought they wanted that GAAS money at the top of the company and naughty dog had to throw their hands up and admit they didn't have the resources to deliver on things other gaas games do
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But Playstation as a whole absolutely does. They could have made it work if they really believed in it. Naughty Dog themselves wouldn't even necessarily need to be the main support studio for the 'live service' part of things after the base affair and structure was built and planned, or ND could have been expanded to do so.

I've seen lots of people online eat up Naughty Dog's PR excuse for the cancellation as if it'd just be impossible to do both single player games and a live service multiplayer title, but that's hardly unprecedented. Respawn have made and supported Apex Legends all while doing two AAA single player titles(and more in the works). It's definitely doable, plus having split teams is basically the way forward for most big studios nowadays.

I think the most likely answer is that the project just wasn't shaping up well. We'd already heard some rumors to that effect, so it seems hard to believe everything was actually fine, and it was simply about not having resources, especially for an elite studio like Naughty Dog who can usually demand what they need from Playstation in that department.

EDIT: I should note that I'm not unhappy with this decision, nonetheless. I've been rooting against Sony's live service push as soon as they announced it and certainly would rather see Naughty Dog being fully committed to making top notch 'cinematic' AAA games as they have become known for. They make good money for Playstation on their own, but also importantly they significantly prop up the reputation of Playstation as a brand, which has a ton of value.
 
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Seanspeed said:
I think the most likely answer is that the project just wasn't shaping up well. We'd already heard some rumors to that effect, so it seems hard to believe everything was actually fine, and it was simply about not having resources, especially for an elite studio like Naughty Dog who can usually demand what they need from Playstation in that department.
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Any actual evidence for that statement?
 
Seanspeed said:
But Playstation as a whole absolutely does. They could have made it work if they really believed in it. Naughty Dog themselves wouldn't even necessarily need to be the main support studio for the 'live service' part of things after the base affair and structure was built and planned, or ND could have been expanded to do so.

I've seen lots of people online eat up Naughty Dog's PR excuse for the cancellation as if it'd just be impossible to do both single player games and a live service multiplayer title, but that's hardly unprecedented. Respawn have made and supported Apex Legends all while doing two AAA single player titles(and more in the works). It's definitely doable, plus having split teams is basically the way forward for most big studios nowadays.

I think the most likely answer is that the project just wasn't shaping up well. We'd already heard some rumors to that effect, so it seems hard to believe everything was actually fine, and it was simply about not having resources, especially for an elite studio like Naughty Dog who can usually demand what they need from Playstation in that department.

EDIT: I should note that I'm not unhappy with this decision, nonetheless. I've been rooting against Sony's live service push as soon as they announced it and certainly would rather see Naughty Dog being fully committed to making top notch 'cinematic' AAA games as they have become known for. They make good money for Playstation on their own, but also importantly they significantly prop up the reputation of Playstation as a brand, which has a ton of value.
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It's not a pr excuse. It's the reality of game development. Either they double their studio just to keep a live service game as players now expect of multiplayer ventures going indefinitely, shelving their single player aspirations not knowing if players will even support what they are doing...

or they go back to single player content and their proven quality dynamic, the thing they really enjoy doing. And they chose the latter. Players presuming they know how game development works on the economic to labor scale of the equation are quite something
 
Shifty Geezer said:
Any actual evidence for that statement?
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I mean, that 'leak' a while ago with that info that wasn't properly redacted showed that TLOU2 budget was $220m. That's near enough blank check style territory as far as video game development goes. The game had immense amounts of outsourcing to cheaper foreign studios as well.

Point is - if the game really was in good shape and the studio believed in it, I absolutely think they could have convinced Playstation to support it with what it needed without them turning into some live service-only studio as they claimed they'd have to have done.
 
Inuhanyou said:
It's not a pr excuse. It's the reality of game development. Either they double their studio just to keep a live service game as players now expect of multiplayer ventures going indefinitely, shelving their single player aspirations not knowing if players will even support what they are doing...

or they go back to single player content and their proven quality dynamic, the thing they really enjoy doing. And they chose the latter. Players presuming they know how game development works on the economic to labor scale of the equation are quite something
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I mean, I kind of talked about this already. Naughty Dog themselves would not have necessarily needed to be fully responsible for the ongoing 'live service' part of things. They could have absolutely hired some external studio or whatever to run most of that, with Naughty Dog in more of a supporting/advising role.

And yes, they could have done a decent size expansion of the studio too(even as a sort of separate entity), if they really thought it would work out. They clearly didn't.

Because come on now, did they only realize four years into development that supporting such a game would require a decent amount of resources? And if you're asking me to believe they're stupid enough to not have realized such an obvious thing early on, I just cant. If it's obvious to normal people like us, it would have been obvious to professionals.

You're also having to ignore that we already heard rumors that internal testing wasn't promising. Come on now. Just gotta put two and two together here.
 
Changes in the market post stay-at-home covid policies may have made their investment look worse. Avoiding the sunk cost fallacy may have been a good move on their part, but it's hard to know.
 
Seanspeed said:
Shifty Geezer said:
Any actual evidence for that statement?
Click to expand...

Seanspeed said:
I mean, that 'leak' a while ago with that info that wasn't properly redacted showed that TLOU2 budget was $220m. That's near enough blank check style territory as far as video game development goes. The game had immense amounts of outsourcing to cheaper foreign studios as well.
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So no then. ;) That's just speculation on your part about how Sony operates its gaming studios. Given they've cancelled plenty of WIP games in the past, I think you're on very unsafe ground with your argument that ND are different and can boss Sony around.
 
Seanspeed said:
I mean, that 'leak' a while ago with that info that wasn't properly redacted showed that TLOU2 budget was $220m. That's near enough blank check style territory as far as video game development goes. The game had immense amounts of outsourcing to cheaper foreign studios as well.

Point is - if the game really was in good shape and the studio believed in it, I absolutely think they could have convinced Playstation to support it with what it needed without them turning into some live service-only studio as they claimed they'd have to have done.
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That’s an insane amount of money. Surely it includes the very large marketing cost that went with it?
 
London Geezer said:
That’s an insane amount of money. Surely it includes the very large marketing cost that went with it?
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Nope, when it originally was in the press (leak from the Microsoft ABK court case), it was stated that the 220 million USD was purely development costs.

www.polygon.com

Sony court blunder reveals $200M cost of The Last of Us 2, Horizon Forbidden West

Microsoft and Activision Blizzard’s FTC hearing is pulling back the curtain of the highly secretive industry
www.polygon.com www.polygon.com

It got out because someone did a shitty job blacking out the redacted parts and you could actually still see what was blacked out.

From the Sony document...

Developments costs were around $220 million...
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In addition to development costs, global marketing costs for AAA games...
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So those are 2 separate costs in Sony's document.

Regards,
SB
 
Ordered a PS5, finally. Got around 50usd discount. That's the largest discount ever. It's crazy.

Now whether I really got it or it went out of stock... Will know tomorrow
 
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Pressure said:
Did you get the new "slim" model?
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It's the old fat one, ff xvi bundle. As The new slim model is around 100 usd more expensive.

Hopefully ffxvi bundle is new enough to have all ps5 early production kinks ironed out.

The store still hasn't shipped my order.. Hmm... I wonder if I got a stock or not...
 
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