Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

[Insight]

I guess for me, I don't see relevance in this infinity cache when you only have 36 CUs. The bandwidth requirement is low considering what you need to feed. The infinity cache looks specifically tailored at providing a bandwidth alternative for the large 60+ CUs.

What about ray-tracing?

 

[iroboto]

What about ray-tracing?

I don't think cache is going to do much for RT. Incoherent rays go everywhere. The BVH structure is 1.5GB in size. I know very little about how hardware RT works with respect to optimizing for hardware, and we haven't seen 6000 series RT performance yet.

I suspect the greatest consumer of that infinity cache, as Al points out, will be the ROPS.

 

[RDGoodla]

These are things that are up for any sort of customization as required.
I'm looking at things like shader engines and arrays CU counts etc. Unless they are also releasing another GPU that is 1/2 the size of the 6800XT, then I can follow along.

PS5 is very like a small version of RX6800xt: almost the same max frequency, 16GB 256bits RAM

I don't expect 128MB infinity cache but 48MB~64MB is still likely.

 

[iroboto]

PS5 is very like a small version of RX6800xt: almost the same max frequency, 16GB 256bits RAM

I don't expect 128MB infinityy cache but 48MB~64MB is still likely.

I suppose that's possible, certainly more believable than 128mb. 1/2 the chip equating to 1/2 the cache.

I would naturally look at SoC die size to get an idea though. Considering how small the PS5 APU is, I'm not fully sold on it as being likely, but not confident enough to say it's not there.

PS5 is keeping up with XSX so far.

 

[AlNom]

I guess for me, I don't see relevance in this infinity cache when you only have 36 CUs. The bandwidth requirement is low considering what you need to feed. The infinity cache looks specifically tailored at providing a bandwidth alternative for the large 60+ CUs.

Maaaaybe. It's entirely possible they don't need to design the Infinity Cache with as much I/O as the 6800/6900 series has. Someone guessed at a 4096-bit width, but hypothetically what if they did 2048-bit while being able to increase density (less overhead I/O). Then we could look at the bandwidth per flop ratios again, which we know were skimped on starting with the midgen twins, so the cache would be designed around a bandwidth that made sense for ~10TF vs the ~20TF segment.

 

[iroboto]

Maaaaybe. It's entirely possible they don't need to design the Infinity Cache with as much I/O as the 6800/6900 series has. Someone guessed at a 4096-bit width, but hypothetically what if they did 2048-bit while being able to increase density (less overhead I/O). Then we could look at the bandwidth per flop ratios again, which we know were skimped on starting with the midgen twins, so the cache would be designed around a bandwidth that made sense for the ~10TF segment.

haha you know something. I'll find you on slack

 

[anexanhume]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1321498778176614400

Already redeemed mine.

 

[BoardBonobo]

Sony own 84% of the console market and were the most popular pre-order console in 148 out 161 monitored markets.

The largest pre-order country for the XSX was... China
The largest pre-order country for the PS5 was Japan

Source

 

[Kugai Calo]

In fact, Anandtech seems to point out that Infinity Cache is instrumental in reducing the GPU's power consumption, which in turn is a great part of what allows Navi 21 to clock as high as it does.
The PS5's GPU clocks could be an indicator that it is carrying a similar implementation of GPU LLC.

Speaking of that, Cerny did say that as a consequence of the high clock, the "distance" to memory (which I interpret as latency to the memory in cycles) is 30% higher, and did not mention any counter measure.

 

[BoardBonobo]

AMD are working on a DLSS like technology for the PS5 -> source

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Speaking of that, Cerny did say that as a consequence of the high clock, the "distance" to memory (which I interpret as latency to the memory in cycles) is 30% higher, and did not mention any counter measure.

Yes, Cerny said one of the defining features of RDNA2 was to "increase power efficiency by rearchitecting the GPU to put the data close to where it's needed, to optimize the GPU for performance".

It's at 25m20s on the road to PS5 presentation.

He too seems to point at the cache changes as the means to increase clocks.

 

[Kugai Calo]

Yes, Cerny said one of the defining features of RDNA2 was to "increase power efficiency by rearchitecting the GPU to put the data close to where it's needed, to optimize the GPU for performance".

It's at 25m20s on the road to PS5 presentation.

He too seems to point at the cache changes as the means to increase clocks.

That’s referring to L1 and other L0 reconfigurations.

 

[Proelite]

PS5 memory interface is 256 bits just like all RX 6000 series.

PS4, PS4 Pro, RX 5700 series too!

On the topic of infinity cache:

Looks like 128mb esram is taking about ~100+mm2 on the Navi 21 die.

 

[Globalisateur]

That’s referring to L1 and other L0 reconfigurations.

How can you put L0 and L1 caches closer to the GPU than where they actually are?

 

[Deleted member 13524]

How can you put L0 and L1 caches closer to the GPU than where they actually are?

It's like closer-er.

 

[Kugai Calo]

How can you put L0 and L1 caches closer to the GPU than where they actually are?

The GPU comprises of many cores (aka CUs) and other components, it's the distance between those and the data that matters, not to the GPU die.

From RDNA Whitepaper:

While moving to a new process technology like 7nm reduces the area and power for transistors, one of the biggest challenges is that the performance and efficiency of wires tends to stay the same or get worse. Consequently, sending data over long distances becomes increasingly expensive. To address this challenge the RDNA architecture introduces a new graphics L1 cache as shown in Figure 11. The graphics L1 cache is shared across a group of dual compute units and can satisfy many data requests, reducing the data that is transmitted across the chip thereby boosting performance and improving power consumption. I

 

[wco81]

https://blog.playstation.com/2020/1...evealed-your-november-playstation-plus-games/

PlayStation Plus Collection details revealed + your November PlayStation Plus games

PS Plus members who own a PS5 console will get the PS5 version of Bugsnax; all PS Plus members get Middle-earth: Shadow of War and Hollow Knight: Voidheart Edition as part of November's lineup.

Next month is an extra special one for PlayStation Plus members. As we approach the launch of PS5, we are pleased to share more information about the PlayStation Plus Collection*, along with your monthly PS4 games.

In November, PlayStation Plus members will receive two PS4 action-adventure games – Middle-earth: Shadow of War and Hollow Knight: Voidheart Edition – dropping on Tuesday, November 3. We’re also thrilled to announce PlayStation Plus members who own a PlayStation 5 console will receive Bugsnax (PS5)** when PS5 launches, beginning November 12.***

PlayStation Plus Collection
PlayStation Plus members will be able to enjoy a special new offering on the PS5 console – the PlayStation Plus Collection. PS5 console owners with PlayStation Plus will be able to redeem and play a curated library of PS4 games that defined the generation, like Batman Arkham Knight, Bloodborne, Fallout 4, God of War, Monster Hunter: World, Persona 5 and many more.

The PlayStation Plus Collection will be available* on November 12 when the PS5 console launches in the U.S., Japan, Canada, Mexico, Australia, New Zealand and South Korea, and November 19 when the PS5 console launches throughout the rest of the world, including Europe, Middle East, South America, Asia and South Africa.

Here are the games available in the PlayStation Plus Collection.

From Worldwide Studios:

• Bloodborne
• Days Gone
• Detroit: Become Human
• God of War
• Infamous Second Son
• Ratchet and Clank
• The Last Guardian
• The Last of Us Remastered
• Until Dawn
• Uncharted 4: A Thief’s End

From our third-party publishers and developers:

• Batman: Arkham Knight
• Battlefield 1
• Call of Duty: Black Ops III – Zombies Chronicles Edition
• Crash Bandicoot N. Sane Trilogy
• Fallout 4
• Final Fantasy XV Royal Edition
• Monster Hunter: World
• Mortal Kombat X
• Persona 5
• Resident Evil 7 biohazard

SO you get all those games if you have a PS5 and an active PSN membership?

Oh they're probably not PS5 versions but PS4 versions which you can play in BC mode? Still a few games I still haven't played.

That's strange, they could sell remastered versions of these games no doubt.

Can you transfer PSN memberships from PS4 to PS5 or are active accounts on PS4 also active on PS5?

 

[anexanhume]

PS4, PS4 Pro, RX 5700 series too!

On the topic of infinity cache:

Looks like 128mb esram is taking about ~100+mm2 on the Navi 21 die.

Placement makes sense. Data will move the least physically if it’s in between memory PHY and the core. The shape is also interesting. Looks like the cache makes a good gap filler to get favorable geometries and space utilization.

I don’t know if there’s enough fudge room in the known PS5 hardware and die size estimates to include any significant cache over the expected 4MB L2, though.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

HTC Sense UI is that you?

I don't find the app on Google Play. Do I have to un-install the old App before installing the new?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Can you transfer PSN memberships from PS4 to PS5 or are active accounts on PS4 also active on PS5?

If you have a PSN membership, you are good to go on the PS5. You must just grab the titles when they become available in November and add it to your account.