Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

[Jay]

Devs should be designing around it, but even if you couldn't, then 336Gb/s is not a slouch either. You're going to want to keep the data you need that is going to be used for high bandwidth operations in the 10GB. The remaining data can be held in the slower, but still very competent 336Gb/s.

I'm not going to say it's not going to have some sort of effect. But I wouldn't re-write the numbers to portray the numbers provided as unrealistic. I would definitely look at ways to keep things in the 10GB pool, and slower stuff in the 336 pool.

Where it would hurt XSX, is on the CPU side of things, not the GPU sides of things. Some things are just better for the CPU to do than the GPU. And in those cases the bandwidth is less.

Also lets put it into contex.
The game has access to what is it 4GB of slower memory?
More likely to spill out from there to faster memory than the other way around.

Once you take into account engine, audio, AI, whatever you would put into the slower memory.
Even if you didn't fill it up, you could still use slow memory for non performant gpu operations, as its actually slower not slow.

But this is too much xbox talk in a Sony thread so I'll leave it at that.

 

[VitaminB6]

Xbox Series X = 12.1tflops @ 560GB/s (560/12.1=46.2). So 46.2/tflop.

PS5 = 10.3tflops @ 448 (448/10.2=43.5). So 43.2/tflop.

That's a difference of 5.85%.

I'm not sure we can just assume that PS5 is going to operate at peak clocks all the time.

 

[function]

It was in reply to the guy stating that there is a 17% bandwidth difference. See first quote.

Yeah, I can see that you were just running with the figures being used. The 17% thing came earlier. Cheers.

 

[function]

I'm not sure we can just assume that PS5 is going to operate at peak clocks all the time.

You're right, it won't. But I think it'll be very, very rare to be outside the top 90%, and I figure fluctuating in the 95 ~ 100% range will be pretty normal, at least going by the relation between RDNA 1 advertised clocks and the clocks observed in actual games.

 

[Globalisateur]

Interesting that they use aluminium for the back shield in order to have better thermal conductivity. And a different kind of thermal paste for the GDDR6 chips.

Great find Vega86, thanks for sharing!

Interesting that he appears to be suggesting that the teardown video missed a heatsink on the B side of the board and that the shield plates are Al to help with cooling on that side also.

Also it increasingly seems to me that someone in Sony engineering has taken all the talk over the past few years of vapour chambers very personally, this is the second interview to specifically call them out



This is not the performative comparison thread and there isn't one because it's not out yet.

The yields that have been reported with numbers are preposterously bad which is why noone is taking them seriously and the source is none too hot either

We didn't miss it.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

I'm not sure we can just assume that PS5 is going to operate at peak clocks all the time.

Which would only narrow the already narrow proportional difference to the point where they would essentially be a match.

 

[VitaminB6]

Which would only narrow the already narrow proportional difference to the point where they would essentially be a match.

How so?

 

[AlNom]

Interesting that they use aluminium for the back shield in order to have better thermal conductivity. And a different kind of thermal paste for the GDDR6 chips.

Copper has a higher thermal conductivity than Aluminum, but Aluminum has a higher heat capacity than Copper.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Hi, I'm French so my language is not perfect. I pre-ordered my PS5 (among the first ones so I'll certainly get it day one), but my question is... which SSD should I get? Honestly I'm waiting for confirmation from Sony, but it's better to take (in 1 Tb) a Samsung 980 Pro or SN850 WD ?

As others have said, I would definitely wait but the SN850 looks like it could be the first declared compatible drive. It's on my radar for the same reason, but equally I'm looking for an external SSD for PS4 games and auxiliary PS5 storage, e.,g unloading them from NVMe storage when that gets short - because you know it will!

Bit of a different take to Cerny talking about how narrow and fast was better, though of course both can be true.

The context of that statement was purely performance. Having PS5 not melt is somebody else's problem.

Copper has a higher thermal conductivity than Aluminum, but Aluminum has a higher heat capacity than Copper.

Hence the popularity of copper-aluminium alloys.

 

[VitaminB6]

You're right, it won't. But I think it'll be very, very rare to be outside the top 90%, and I figure fluctuating in the 95 ~ 100% range will be pretty normal, at least going by the relation between RDNA 1 advertised clocks and the clocks observed in actual games.

Can the PS5 run full clock CPU/GPU all the time? Will concessions have to be made on the GPU side for games that require peak CPU performance? No one really knows the answers to these questions yet (obviously some people do but not us ). Judging by the amount of effort put into cooling with liquid metal, and an enormous heat sink it seems possible but we won't know until we see actual games and have Digital Foundry comparison videos.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

How so?

Tflops as a proportion of GB/s, would be as follows:

Xbox Series X = 46.2
Optimum PS5 (at full frequency) = 43.5

So a 5.85% advantage to Series X.

Non-optimum PS5 (at 9.1tflops only because some folks love that number) = 49.2

So the PS5 when running slower would have more available BW/flop. The reality is that the PS5 will be fluctuating between multiple numbers according to the available power to the GPU.

 

[manux]

Hi, I'm French so my language is not perfect. I pre-ordered my PS5 (among the first ones so I'll certainly get it day one), but my question is... which SSD should I get? Honestly I'm waiting for confirmation from Sony, but it's better to take (in 1 Tb) a Samsung 980 Pro or SN850 WD ?

The SN850 goes with the heatsink in the console slot ? Is it really useful in games ? Because on their site they say that the version with heatsink is intended for PC ...

Thanks

Wait until the internal drive is full. No point buying something now. Price of additional space can be significantly cheaper in future. If you have big library of ps4 games then you can use slower external storage for ps4 titles and dedicate internal fast storage for ps5 titles.

This drive should work with ps5: https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/10/western_digital_reveals_first_ps5_compatible_ssd

 

[iroboto]

Can the PS5 run full clock CPU/GPU all the time? Will concessions have to be made on the GPU side for games that require peak CPU performance? No one really knows the answers to these questions yet (obviously some people do but not us ). Judging by the amount of effort put into cooling with liquid metal, and an enormous heat sink it seems possible but we won't know until we see actual games and have Digital Foundry comparison videos.

let's not do this here. There's a boat load of other threads for this type of convo that has covered these topics extensively and debated to death, I know because of my involvement in so many of them. I rather not mess up another thread for it.

On the topic, we can only look at game output; which we have none, and technical comparisons; which we have none. But we do know that many of the settings on XSX for select titles, PS5 matches admirably, 4K and 60fps and 120fps modes all matched. So take that as you will in terms of it's expected performance.

 

[VitaminB6]

Tflops as a proportion of GB/s, would be as follows:

Xbox Series X = 46.2
Optimum PS5 (at full frequency) = 43.5

So a 5.85% advantage to Series X.

Non-optimum PS5 (at 9.1tflops only because some folks love that number) = 49.2

So the PS5 when running slower would have more available BW/flop. The reality is that the PS5 will be fluctuating between multiple numbers according to the available power to the GPU.

So I could build a GPU with 10CU's and give it 1000GB/s of bandwidth and that would somehow be better than PS5 and XBSX? Not sure I'm sold on your conclusion.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

So I could build a GPU with 10CU's and give it 1000GB/s of bandwidth and that would somehow be better than PS5 and XBSX? Not sure I'm sold on your conclusion.

No, it definitely wouldn't. Nor would it ever make sense to do so. Nor am I suggesting that'd ever be the case. In fact, I was arguing against exactly that.

 

[VitaminB6]

let's not do this here. There's a boat load of other threads for this type of convo that has covered these topics extensively and debated to death, I know because of my involvement in so many of them. I rather not mess up another thread for it.

On the topic, we can only look at game output; which we have none, and technical comparisons; which we have none. But we do know that many of the settings on XSX for select titles, PS5 matches admirably, 4K and 60fps and 120fps modes all matched. So take that as you will in terms of it's expected performance.

That's fine but if you're directly comparing both consoles I don't see how you can just ignore an unknown like that. BUT, yes it has been discussed to death, so... my bad.

 

[iroboto]

That's fine but if you're directly comparing both consoles I don't see how you can just ignore an unknown like that. BUT, yes it has been discussed to death, so... my bad.

it's okay, I'm not judging you. We all do it. I do it all the time. But since I started to see the thread spiral into comparisons, I just wanted to give toot the horn to stay on the topic of PS5.

 

[manux]

I think it is. XSX is having fixed clocks while PS5 is not. Also, XSX is having more than 17% more memory bandwidth as well.

It could also be both boxes have same amount of geometry engines and rops in which case higher clock speed would mean something. Similarly internal caches would run at higher clockspeeds. But it's all pointless posturing, flops is a pc metric. Want flops, get a pc. At least I'm buying ps5 due to sony games knowing they have really good development teams pushing hw they are given. Realistically 20% is very insignificant difference. It's very minor difference in resolution, fps or just tweaking few parameters in rendering. Difference in amount of pixels between 1080p and 4k is 400% for reference.

In other news:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1315427237596930049

 

[VitaminB6]

No, it definitely wouldn't. Nor would it ever make sense to do so. Nor am I suggesting that'd ever be the case.

I think you missed the point I was making, or ignored it. Having more available bandwidth per TF is good yes, but it's probably too simplistic of a way to gauge potential performance.

 

[VitaminB6]

In other news:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1315427237596930049

I'm not really surprised Sony is crushing it, they have a ton of momentum from the PS4. I do find it curious how they come up with these numbers though. Did Sony have 80% more PS5's available for pre-order? I know XBSX/XBSS is completely sold out everywhere as well because I've been trying to order one on a daily basis. Is this based upon polling?