I think you should skip buying PS5 altogether. The next node release will have even more issues that irritate you.
Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]
- Thread starter BRiT
- Start date
I think you should skip buying PS5 altogether. The next node release will have even more issues that irritate you.
Ootori interview:
Interview with Otori VP in Japanese(1/2)
PS5 to use "liquid metal" for preparedness, the real aim is to cut costs
The head of mechanical and thermal design talks about PS5 disassembly (Part 1)
"I really wanted to use liquid metal as a heat conductor. It took a lot of determination and preparation. Sony Interactive Entertainment's (SIE) PlayStation 5 (PS5) console is scheduled to launch in November 2020, and Yasuhiro Otori, who is responsible for the mechanical and thermal design of the console, has been working on the PS5 This is how he describes his thoughts on the technology that played a key role in making the He has been involved in the design of the PlayStation since the PS2, and appeared himself in the PS5 disassembly video released by SIE on October 7, 2020, to work and explain the process.
PS5 uses liquid metal as the heat conduction material (TIM) for transferring heat from the main processor (SoC) to the heat sink. Without this liquid metal TIM, the PS5 would have been larger, more expensive, and the cooling fan would have been louder. The noise of the cooling fan during gaming varies depending on the situation, but according to Otori, "the PS5 is generally quieter than the PS4".
The PS5 is available in two models, one with an optical disc drive and the other without, priced at US$499 and US$399, respectively, which is a bargain against the specifications. The thermal design contributed greatly to the cost savings in achieving this price. This article will be divided into two parts, Part 1 and Part 2, based on the interview with Mr. Otori.
Why did we use liquid metal in TIM?
Preparations for the adoption of liquid metal TIM began about two years ago, when the configuration and shape of the PS5 hardware was roughly decided. In addition to the design, we began to consider various aspects of the adoption of liquid metal TIM, from the manufacturing process to procurement. They decided to use liquid metal TIM because the main processor (SoC) had a high operating frequency, but the die was small and the thermal density was "very high" (Mr. Otori). The heat density of the SoC, especially during gaming, is "much higher" (he said) than the PS4. That's because the PS5's SoC "basically runs at almost full power during gaming" (he says). As a result, TDP (Thermal Design Power) values and the amount of heat generated during gaming are "about the same". On the other hand, it is rare for a PS4 SoC to operate at the very edge of TDP, and even when gaming, it generates only a few percent of its TDP.
The reason for the small size of the SoC die is that die size is directly related to cost and yield. In other words, the smaller the die size, the lower the cost and the more difficult it is for defects to enter the die, which leads to higher yields.
Liquid metal TIM is more expensive than conventional thermal conductors such as thermal grease. However, when considering the thermal design of electronic devices, the more effort is put into cooling close to the heat source, the "better the cost performance" (Mr. Otori). This is because if heat can be recovered efficiently near the heat source, there is no need to spend money on heat sinks and cooling fans. On the other hand, if thermal grease is used, an expensive heat sink with high cooling performance is required.
In other words, even if we use liquid metal TIM, which leads to higher costs, we can reduce the total cost of cooling as a result," says Otori. The speed of the cooling fan can also be reduced, which reduces noise. In other words, the use of liquid metal TIM "makes sense in terms of cost and quietness" (Mr. Otori).
So will liquid metal TIM be used in other electronic devices in the future? As for that, "I don't know" (Mr. Otori), but he prefaced it by saying, "As an engineer, the less expensive a device is, the more I want to use it" (Mr. Otori). He believes that liquid metal TIM will be a powerful tool in cases where heat sinks are expensive and in need of help.
Teaming up with a material manufacturer and know-how in application
Liquid metal TIM has many advantages, but it is a material that "poses a challenge to use" (Mr. Otori). For example, because it is conductive, if liquid metal TIM leaks onto the board, there is a risk of a short circuit in the board. In addition, it is highly reactive to aluminum, so it must be kept away from aluminum.
Because of these issues, although TIM is used in mobile phone base stations and other devices, its use in consumer applications is limited to a limited number of notebook computers and "overclockers," which are enthusiasts who increase the operating frequency of processors. .
Therefore, the company has taken measures to address these issues so that it can be used in game consoles that are mass-produced in quantities ranging from several million units to more than 10 million units per year. For example, a sealed structure was adopted to prevent leakage of the liquid metal TIM. This structure is patented, although it would be obvious if it were to be disassembled and seen. Above all, there is a lot of manufacturing know-how, such as how to apply and automate liquid metal TIM, that is not obvious just by looking at it," said Otori. For example, liquid metal TIM is applied by an automated machine, but "it's a different method than conventional grease," according to Mr. Otori. We cooperated with material manufacturers to realize this liquid metal TIM. The company claims to have added customizations based on existing products.
Interview with Otori VP in Japanese(1/2)
PS5 to use "liquid metal" for preparedness, the real aim is to cut costs
The head of mechanical and thermal design talks about PS5 disassembly (Part 1)
"I really wanted to use liquid metal as a heat conductor. It took a lot of determination and preparation. Sony Interactive Entertainment's (SIE) PlayStation 5 (PS5) console is scheduled to launch in November 2020, and Yasuhiro Otori, who is responsible for the mechanical and thermal design of the console, has been working on the PS5 This is how he describes his thoughts on the technology that played a key role in making the He has been involved in the design of the PlayStation since the PS2, and appeared himself in the PS5 disassembly video released by SIE on October 7, 2020, to work and explain the process.
PS5 uses liquid metal as the heat conduction material (TIM) for transferring heat from the main processor (SoC) to the heat sink. Without this liquid metal TIM, the PS5 would have been larger, more expensive, and the cooling fan would have been louder. The noise of the cooling fan during gaming varies depending on the situation, but according to Otori, "the PS5 is generally quieter than the PS4".
The PS5 is available in two models, one with an optical disc drive and the other without, priced at US$499 and US$399, respectively, which is a bargain against the specifications. The thermal design contributed greatly to the cost savings in achieving this price. This article will be divided into two parts, Part 1 and Part 2, based on the interview with Mr. Otori.
Why did we use liquid metal in TIM?
Preparations for the adoption of liquid metal TIM began about two years ago, when the configuration and shape of the PS5 hardware was roughly decided. In addition to the design, we began to consider various aspects of the adoption of liquid metal TIM, from the manufacturing process to procurement. They decided to use liquid metal TIM because the main processor (SoC) had a high operating frequency, but the die was small and the thermal density was "very high" (Mr. Otori). The heat density of the SoC, especially during gaming, is "much higher" (he said) than the PS4. That's because the PS5's SoC "basically runs at almost full power during gaming" (he says). As a result, TDP (Thermal Design Power) values and the amount of heat generated during gaming are "about the same". On the other hand, it is rare for a PS4 SoC to operate at the very edge of TDP, and even when gaming, it generates only a few percent of its TDP.
The reason for the small size of the SoC die is that die size is directly related to cost and yield. In other words, the smaller the die size, the lower the cost and the more difficult it is for defects to enter the die, which leads to higher yields.
Liquid metal TIM is more expensive than conventional thermal conductors such as thermal grease. However, when considering the thermal design of electronic devices, the more effort is put into cooling close to the heat source, the "better the cost performance" (Mr. Otori). This is because if heat can be recovered efficiently near the heat source, there is no need to spend money on heat sinks and cooling fans. On the other hand, if thermal grease is used, an expensive heat sink with high cooling performance is required.
In other words, even if we use liquid metal TIM, which leads to higher costs, we can reduce the total cost of cooling as a result," says Otori. The speed of the cooling fan can also be reduced, which reduces noise. In other words, the use of liquid metal TIM "makes sense in terms of cost and quietness" (Mr. Otori).
So will liquid metal TIM be used in other electronic devices in the future? As for that, "I don't know" (Mr. Otori), but he prefaced it by saying, "As an engineer, the less expensive a device is, the more I want to use it" (Mr. Otori). He believes that liquid metal TIM will be a powerful tool in cases where heat sinks are expensive and in need of help.
Teaming up with a material manufacturer and know-how in application
Liquid metal TIM has many advantages, but it is a material that "poses a challenge to use" (Mr. Otori). For example, because it is conductive, if liquid metal TIM leaks onto the board, there is a risk of a short circuit in the board. In addition, it is highly reactive to aluminum, so it must be kept away from aluminum.
Because of these issues, although TIM is used in mobile phone base stations and other devices, its use in consumer applications is limited to a limited number of notebook computers and "overclockers," which are enthusiasts who increase the operating frequency of processors. .
Therefore, the company has taken measures to address these issues so that it can be used in game consoles that are mass-produced in quantities ranging from several million units to more than 10 million units per year. For example, a sealed structure was adopted to prevent leakage of the liquid metal TIM. This structure is patented, although it would be obvious if it were to be disassembled and seen. Above all, there is a lot of manufacturing know-how, such as how to apply and automate liquid metal TIM, that is not obvious just by looking at it," said Otori. For example, liquid metal TIM is applied by an automated machine, but "it's a different method than conventional grease," according to Mr. Otori. We cooperated with material manufacturers to realize this liquid metal TIM. The company claims to have added customizations based on existing products.
Interview with Otori VP in Japanese(2/2)
The secret to the PS5's size lies in its cooling fan, and the odd trick in the heatsink
The head of mechanical and thermal design talks about PS5 disassembly (Part 2)
Sony Interactive Entertainment (SIE) will release PlayStation 5 (PS5) in November 2020, and the company has announced that it will cut costs, improve noise and increase the size of the console's chassis In PS5, liquid metal thermal interface (TIM) is used to efficiently conduct the heat generated by the main processor (SoC) to a large heatsink, which is then cooled by a large cooling fan. In the first part of this article, the TIM of liquid metal was explained. In the second part, we will introduce some innovations for large cooling fans and heat sinks.
The PS5's cooling fan is centrifugal, just like the PS3 and PS4, and is 120mm in diameter. It is 120mm in diameter and is controlled by a servo system like the PS4, which adjusts the fan speed according to heat generation. The centrifugal fan produces airflow in all directions. Compared to the axial fans commonly used in desktop computers, the airflow is a little smaller, but the static pressure is a little higher.
The type of fan to be used is generally chosen based on the required static pressure and flow rate. If the static pressure required for a fan is low, then an axial fan is an option instead of a centrifugal fan. But the centrifugal fan is still in the strike zone" (Otori Yasuhiro, head of the PS5's mechanical and thermal design).
The bigger PS5 comes from a thicker fan
To cool both sides of the main board, the PS5's cooling fan is 45 mm thick, which is thicker than the current PS4 and PS4 Pro. If we divide the SoC-mounted side of the PS5 into "Side A" and the back of the PS5 into "Side B," then the heat emitted from Side B is "equivalent to that of the PS4's SoC," according to Mr. Otori. Therefore, the air is sucked in from both sides of the cooling fan to cool the A and B sides of the main board.
The size of this cooling fan determined the size of the PS5. The fan's thickness was based on the width of the PS5 when it was placed vertically (or the height if it was placed horizontally), and it was asymmetrical when viewed from the front. This is because that is where the optical disk drive is located.
Easy to remove the optical disk drive
When the unit is placed in portrait mode, the right side viewed from the front is on the bottom of the unit when it is placed horizontally. When the system is placed horizontally, the main board is placed underneath the heat sink and power supply module, and the optical disk drive is placed underneath the main board. The purpose of this is to make it easier to support the "Digital Edition" which does not include the drive. If you remove the optical disc drive, the standard PS5 becomes the Digital Edition.
The PS5 measures 390mm x 260mm x 104mm, which is larger than the larger PS4 Pro (approximately 327mm x 295mm x 55mm), which is the larger of the PS4 series. In fact, there were ways to make the PS5 smaller than its current size. For example, we could reduce the size of the PS5 by installing two cooling fans, one for side A and one for side B. However, there was no way to make the PS5 smaller than the current size. However, this would increase the cost of the two cooling fans. In addition, controlling the rotation of the two cooling fans is "more difficult" than controlling only one fan. That is why they decided to use a single large fan to cool both sides of a single main board.
Small details around the cooling fan
Around the cooling fan, measures have been taken to ensure user convenience and safety. For example, the PS5 uses a "dust catcher" that collects dust and other small debris blown away by the centrifugal force of the fan. According to Otori, "It's something we've wanted to introduce for a long time, and we adopted it because we could secure the space. Inside the PS5 is a space where dust blown away by the centrifugal force of the fan can be collected, and the dust can be vacuumed up through the hole that appears when the white exterior cover is removed.
Safety measures were also taken to prevent fingers from accidentally getting into the spinning fan. Removing the outer cover reveals the cooling fan. While it is assumed that the power is turned off when removing the exterior cover, there is no chance of removing the cover without turning it off. In other words, if you remove the exterior cover while the power is on, the cooling fan will still be spinning. This is why we added a cover to prevent fingers from getting into the fan while it is spinning.
However, because the fan cover creates air resistance, it has a three-dimensional shape and has small holes in it to allow the air to flow smoothly. According to Mr. Otori, "This cover was designed by a young engineer who had been with the company for a couple of years".
3D heat pipes and gaps between cooling fins
Even with a large heat sink, the company has achieved both improved cooling performance and cost reduction. Although the heat pipes are used, the shape and airflow of the heat pipes have enabled the company to achieve cooling performance equivalent to that of an expensive vapour chamber with superior cooling performance and reduced costs. For example, the heat pipes are bent in a three-dimensional (three-dimensional) structure. Of the three fins in the heatsink, the heat pipe is made to pass through the upper and lower sides of one fin (fin 1), respectively, to increase the cooling performance of this fin.
The other two fins have some innovations as well. For example, one of the fins (fin 2) is angled at an angle. In addition, we intentionally created a gap between this fin (fin 2) and the other fin (fin 3) to allow the air that has been heated by the first fin (fin 2) to be mixed with air from another source to cool it down and then sent to the second fin (fin 3) to improve the cooling effect on fin 3. I made it. If this gap is also filled with fins, the cooling effect of fin 3 is reduced because once the air is not cooled, it cannot be cooled.
On the B side, there is also a heat sink and heat pipe
In addition to this large item, there is another heat sink in the area that is difficult to see from the disassembly video. That is the heat sink located on the B side of the main board. The main board is sandwiched between the aforementioned A side and B side by a metal shield plate, and in order to cool the power supply system such as the DC-DC converter mounted on the B side, a heat sink and a heat pipe were installed on the shield plate on the B side. In addition, the B-side shield is made of aluminum for cooling, while the A-side shield is made of steel.
There were other structural features as well. One example is the thermal conductivity between the GDDR6 compatible memory mounted on the B side of the main board and the shield board. Instead of the so-called 'stick-on' type thermal conductor in sheet form, it is coated with a liquid material that hardens like rubber after a short time. This is a measure to increase productivity in response to automation.
In the case of the paste-type heat-conductive materials, it is difficult to remove them from the backing board by an automatic machine, so it is necessary to manually remove them. The PS5 uses almost all of the thermal conducive materials used in the PS5, whereas the PS4 series used only some of them.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/ps...ost-transformative-console-yet.301859/page-65
The secret to the PS5's size lies in its cooling fan, and the odd trick in the heatsink
The head of mechanical and thermal design talks about PS5 disassembly (Part 2)
Sony Interactive Entertainment (SIE) will release PlayStation 5 (PS5) in November 2020, and the company has announced that it will cut costs, improve noise and increase the size of the console's chassis In PS5, liquid metal thermal interface (TIM) is used to efficiently conduct the heat generated by the main processor (SoC) to a large heatsink, which is then cooled by a large cooling fan. In the first part of this article, the TIM of liquid metal was explained. In the second part, we will introduce some innovations for large cooling fans and heat sinks.
The PS5's cooling fan is centrifugal, just like the PS3 and PS4, and is 120mm in diameter. It is 120mm in diameter and is controlled by a servo system like the PS4, which adjusts the fan speed according to heat generation. The centrifugal fan produces airflow in all directions. Compared to the axial fans commonly used in desktop computers, the airflow is a little smaller, but the static pressure is a little higher.
The type of fan to be used is generally chosen based on the required static pressure and flow rate. If the static pressure required for a fan is low, then an axial fan is an option instead of a centrifugal fan. But the centrifugal fan is still in the strike zone" (Otori Yasuhiro, head of the PS5's mechanical and thermal design).
The bigger PS5 comes from a thicker fan
To cool both sides of the main board, the PS5's cooling fan is 45 mm thick, which is thicker than the current PS4 and PS4 Pro. If we divide the SoC-mounted side of the PS5 into "Side A" and the back of the PS5 into "Side B," then the heat emitted from Side B is "equivalent to that of the PS4's SoC," according to Mr. Otori. Therefore, the air is sucked in from both sides of the cooling fan to cool the A and B sides of the main board.
The size of this cooling fan determined the size of the PS5. The fan's thickness was based on the width of the PS5 when it was placed vertically (or the height if it was placed horizontally), and it was asymmetrical when viewed from the front. This is because that is where the optical disk drive is located.
Easy to remove the optical disk drive
When the unit is placed in portrait mode, the right side viewed from the front is on the bottom of the unit when it is placed horizontally. When the system is placed horizontally, the main board is placed underneath the heat sink and power supply module, and the optical disk drive is placed underneath the main board. The purpose of this is to make it easier to support the "Digital Edition" which does not include the drive. If you remove the optical disc drive, the standard PS5 becomes the Digital Edition.
The PS5 measures 390mm x 260mm x 104mm, which is larger than the larger PS4 Pro (approximately 327mm x 295mm x 55mm), which is the larger of the PS4 series. In fact, there were ways to make the PS5 smaller than its current size. For example, we could reduce the size of the PS5 by installing two cooling fans, one for side A and one for side B. However, there was no way to make the PS5 smaller than the current size. However, this would increase the cost of the two cooling fans. In addition, controlling the rotation of the two cooling fans is "more difficult" than controlling only one fan. That is why they decided to use a single large fan to cool both sides of a single main board.
Small details around the cooling fan
Around the cooling fan, measures have been taken to ensure user convenience and safety. For example, the PS5 uses a "dust catcher" that collects dust and other small debris blown away by the centrifugal force of the fan. According to Otori, "It's something we've wanted to introduce for a long time, and we adopted it because we could secure the space. Inside the PS5 is a space where dust blown away by the centrifugal force of the fan can be collected, and the dust can be vacuumed up through the hole that appears when the white exterior cover is removed.
Safety measures were also taken to prevent fingers from accidentally getting into the spinning fan. Removing the outer cover reveals the cooling fan. While it is assumed that the power is turned off when removing the exterior cover, there is no chance of removing the cover without turning it off. In other words, if you remove the exterior cover while the power is on, the cooling fan will still be spinning. This is why we added a cover to prevent fingers from getting into the fan while it is spinning.
However, because the fan cover creates air resistance, it has a three-dimensional shape and has small holes in it to allow the air to flow smoothly. According to Mr. Otori, "This cover was designed by a young engineer who had been with the company for a couple of years".
3D heat pipes and gaps between cooling fins
Even with a large heat sink, the company has achieved both improved cooling performance and cost reduction. Although the heat pipes are used, the shape and airflow of the heat pipes have enabled the company to achieve cooling performance equivalent to that of an expensive vapour chamber with superior cooling performance and reduced costs. For example, the heat pipes are bent in a three-dimensional (three-dimensional) structure. Of the three fins in the heatsink, the heat pipe is made to pass through the upper and lower sides of one fin (fin 1), respectively, to increase the cooling performance of this fin.
The other two fins have some innovations as well. For example, one of the fins (fin 2) is angled at an angle. In addition, we intentionally created a gap between this fin (fin 2) and the other fin (fin 3) to allow the air that has been heated by the first fin (fin 2) to be mixed with air from another source to cool it down and then sent to the second fin (fin 3) to improve the cooling effect on fin 3. I made it. If this gap is also filled with fins, the cooling effect of fin 3 is reduced because once the air is not cooled, it cannot be cooled.
On the B side, there is also a heat sink and heat pipe
In addition to this large item, there is another heat sink in the area that is difficult to see from the disassembly video. That is the heat sink located on the B side of the main board. The main board is sandwiched between the aforementioned A side and B side by a metal shield plate, and in order to cool the power supply system such as the DC-DC converter mounted on the B side, a heat sink and a heat pipe were installed on the shield plate on the B side. In addition, the B-side shield is made of aluminum for cooling, while the A-side shield is made of steel.
There were other structural features as well. One example is the thermal conductivity between the GDDR6 compatible memory mounted on the B side of the main board and the shield board. Instead of the so-called 'stick-on' type thermal conductor in sheet form, it is coated with a liquid material that hardens like rubber after a short time. This is a measure to increase productivity in response to automation.
In the case of the paste-type heat-conductive materials, it is difficult to remove them from the backing board by an automatic machine, so it is necessary to manually remove them. The PS5 uses almost all of the thermal conducive materials used in the PS5, whereas the PS4 series used only some of them.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/ps...ost-transformative-console-yet.301859/page-65
I see little talk around the presumed performance disparity between XSX and the PS5. A ~15% size difference in the SoC is no small amount. Combine that with the ~1.7TF documented shortfall, there will be interesting performance differences.
I wonder will there be an appreciative benefit for the PS5 from the higher data bandwidth and custom controller.
The yields that are being reported are pretty dire. Presuming decent sales, I can see shortages all the way to Q3 '21. Having worked in Intel, Qualcomm and the likes - ~50% yield is pretty disastrous.
I wonder will there be an appreciative benefit for the PS5 from the higher data bandwidth and custom controller.
The yields that are being reported are pretty dire. Presuming decent sales, I can see shortages all the way to Q3 '21. Having worked in Intel, Qualcomm and the likes - ~50% yield is pretty disastrous.
Great find Vega86, thanks for sharing!
Interesting that he appears to be suggesting that the teardown video missed a heatsink on the B side of the board and that the shield plates are Al to help with cooling on that side also.
Also it increasingly seems to me that someone in Sony engineering has taken all the talk over the past few years of vapour chambers very personally, this is the second interview to specifically call them out
This is not the performative comparison thread and there isn't one because it's not out yet.
The yields that have been reported with numbers are preposterously bad which is why noone is taking them seriously and the source is none too hot either
Interesting that he appears to be suggesting that the teardown video missed a heatsink on the B side of the board and that the shield plates are Al to help with cooling on that side also.
Also it increasingly seems to me that someone in Sony engineering has taken all the talk over the past few years of vapour chambers very personally, this is the second interview to specifically call them out
This is not the performative comparison thread and there isn't one because it's not out yet.
The yields that have been reported with numbers are preposterously bad which is why noone is taking them seriously and the source is none too hot either
When Sony said that work on a metal TIM began about 2 years ago in the teardown video, it did occur to me that about two years ago would have been when they were having frequency issues with fixed clocks and moving to take advantage of boosting and AMD Smart Shift. It's interesting how one decision may drive innovation in another area.
While liquid metal is nothing new, automating its use on a huge scale certainly seems to be. So far on PC afaik it's only been nerds carefully applying it to de-lidded chips, taping over power caps and hoping they don't short anything.
Bit of a different take to Cerny talking about how narrow and fast was better, though of course both can be true. Smaller die is cheaper, and better TIM allows a cheaper heatsink both in terms of heat management and noise (especially with a very high thermal density).
I'm still expecting PS5 to more or less rival the boost clocks of the fastest PC RDNA2 models. If anything stands out as faster it'll only be the top end part, with the best bins, and I don't think it'll be by much. I know some folks disagreed a couple of months back as consoles have never done this before, but it's perhaps more understandable now. When Cerny said they were pushing the max boost of their chips up towards a limit beyond which the logic could no-longer reliably function, I don't think he was kidding.
It would be interesting to know if BC also played a role in determining the size of the chip too (36 CUs like 4Pro), though I guess it wouldn't be of benefit to confirm at this particular point in time.
D
Deleted member 86764
Guest
50% yield? Where have you pulled that number from?
To be pedantic, its 1.875 TF (12.155 vs 10.28).
My laptop apparently uses liquid metal (worth noting that this is a new model less than couple of months old, and quite an expensive model). So it's not undoable on a large production scale.
Interesting! Didn't know it had made it's way into consumer devices direct from vendors.
I think it could still be hand applied in a factory somewhere though, as I think final assembly for a lot of relatively low volume devices (like high end laptops) is still done by works in the far east. I could be wrong, of course.
D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
To be extra pedantic, Sony wrote 10.3 TFLOPs in their presentation slides, and the 2.23GHz mentioned may not be 2230.00MHz and it's just the rounded number towards 2 decimal digits.
If the clocks are e.g. 2234.44MHz then the throughput is 10.296 TFLOPs, which rounds up to 10.30 or 10.3 if you want 2 decimal digits.
Also, SeriesX's 52 CUs at 1825MHz results in 52*128*1.825 = 12.147 TFLOPs, not 12.155.
https://www.asus.com/Laptops/ROG-Zephyrus-S15/
It's this model, and from actual use, it is quite striking how much heat it can still push out while I had it set in silent mode while playing games.
hmm, that doesn't exactly fill me with confidence here.
D
Deleted member 86764
Guest
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the PS4 Pro when running in “Boost Mode” essentially run at reduced 18CUs (to match PS4), but at the PS4 Pro’s frequencies (i.e., 911Mhz)? Presumably the PS5 would offer a similar type of backwards compatibility, so it could work something like this:
Standard BC PS4 = 18 CUs@800Mhz; 1.84tflops
“Boost Mode” BC PS4 = 18 CUs@~2230Mhz; 5.13tflops (an increase of ~2.8x the flops)
Standard BC PS4 Pro = 36 CUs@911Mhz; 4.19 tflops
“Boost Mode” BC PS4 Pro = 36 CUs@~2230Mhz; 10.3 tflops (an increase of ~2.45x the flops)
This would be disregarding the RDNA2 functionality. It sounds likes the BC modes when in “Boost” should easily by able to double the framerate or resolution of either of those modes.
Makes me wonder why the Xbox Series X didn’t push Hitman to a solid unwavering 60hz, I can only guess that it’s a difference in how the hardware are setup. Might this put Sony in a better position with some last-gen BC games, since the hardware is largely the same (in BC mode) just at a significantly higher frequency?
Standard BC PS4 = 18 CUs@800Mhz; 1.84tflops
“Boost Mode” BC PS4 = 18 CUs@~2230Mhz; 5.13tflops (an increase of ~2.8x the flops)
Standard BC PS4 Pro = 36 CUs@911Mhz; 4.19 tflops
“Boost Mode” BC PS4 Pro = 36 CUs@~2230Mhz; 10.3 tflops (an increase of ~2.45x the flops)
This would be disregarding the RDNA2 functionality. It sounds likes the BC modes when in “Boost” should easily by able to double the framerate or resolution of either of those modes.
Makes me wonder why the Xbox Series X didn’t push Hitman to a solid unwavering 60hz, I can only guess that it’s a difference in how the hardware are setup. Might this put Sony in a better position with some last-gen BC games, since the hardware is largely the same (in BC mode) just at a significantly higher frequency?
Last edited by a moderator:
By the results of the boost mode on the PS4 Pro, I doubt it only runs at 18 CUs according to the performance bump (well, you'd only see like a 15% bump which is close to nothing). Boost mode just didn't require the devs' input on the settings and ran at the original resolutions as fast as possibl, while proper PS4 pro versions had the devs tweak the settings for optimized results.
This is what I never understood, yes there probably were loud machines at launch, talking about the base model but mine was silent.
It only got louder after about two years or more until it was a screaming banshee playing warzone earlier this year.
Replaced the thermal paste and it's pretty quite again.
anexanhume
Veteran
D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
The SeriesX has 17% higher compute throughput, but the PS5 has up to 22% higher GPU clocks. This means if they both have the same amount of ROPs, geometry / primitive units, ACEs, etc. then the PS5 potentially has 22% higher pixel fillrate and is 22% faster at triangle setup and instruction scheduling, among others.
It's true that, within a e.g. 33ms frame, a large portion of that time is spent on compute shaders. However the proportions vary a lot between game engines, games on the same engine, scenes on the same game, etc.
That said, it's not right to assume the SeriesX will consistently be 17% or more faster at rendering the same frame than the PS5. It's probably less, but we can't really quantify exactly how less at this point (if ever).
That is an outrageously nice bit of kit! That's banging on for next gen console level in an unreasonably thin and light laptop.
I can totally see that liquid metal makes sense for Sony. The big let down with my Ivy Bridge was that it used some kind of white TIM to connect die and heatspreader instead of solder - my overclock is severely limited by temperatures even with an undervolt and my phat Noctua cooler with its 14 cm fans at maximum noise making potential. You just can't get the heat past the cheap TIM on the die and into the heatspreader fast enough (I've tried water cooling too, no difference).
HBRU
Regular
Japanese Sony engineer talk about liquid metal cooling
https://xtech.nikkei.com/atcl/nxt/column/18/00001/04707/
https://xtech.nikkei.com/atcl/nxt/column/18/00001/04707/
Similar threads
- Locked
- Deleted member 7537
- Games Industry
- Sticky