Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]
- Thread starter BRiT
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Damn. There goes any chance of me getting a decent trade-in value on my psvr.
If I were to hazard a guess, it's probably present on the gpu. The communication from Sony hasn't been the best with lots of omissions. I mean, they revealed the new controller yesterday and didn't confirm that it had a 3.5mm audio jack. That confirmation came from another employee.
D
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Theoretically yes, in PS4 some of Sony's GNM APIs are thin-bordering-on-non-existent. I.e. you're shoving data into GPU registers, it doesn't get lower level than that. That said, given the challenges backwards compatibility ((Pro and PS5) has brought, Sony may have a fatter native PS5 API (GNM+, GNM2 whatever) that fattens some of these functions.
It is unimaginable that VRS isn't accessible to devs on PS5 if it exists in hardware.
I'm sure vrs is part of RDNA 2. It might not be in PS5 though, people forget these are custom chips. Cerney actually had a part in the GDC road to PS5 about how there are custom features and that because it might come to PC hardware later doesn't mean it wasn't them who had a part in it.
My take is that everything amd has talked about is base RDNA2.
When they talk about their actual graphics cards then they'll talk about things that may not be in either or only one console.
So VRS is base RDNA2, and in ps5.
Whether that's tier 1 or 2 which I don't think amd has talked about yet, my guess is RDNA 2 is tier 2.
MS may have got a flag or something added to it as a customization.
When they talk about their actual graphics cards then they'll talk about things that may not be in either or only one console.
So VRS is base RDNA2, and in ps5.
Whether that's tier 1 or 2 which I don't think amd has talked about yet, my guess is RDNA 2 is tier 2.
MS may have got a flag or something added to it as a customization.
D
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If the underlying logic blocks of hardware that support VRS is in RDNA2 then Sony would have had to make a conscious decision decision to remove it, leaving a hole in the layout. It's work to remove logic blocks and more work to engineer around the problem you just created. You absolutely only remove functionality from an existing die design if it's taking up massive amount of transistors/die-space and you need that space for something else and don't want to - or can't - go larger.
This is not a console-specific thing, this is a semiconductor thing.
If the underlying logic blocks of hardware that support VRS is in RDNA2 then Sony would have had to make a conscious decision decision to remove it, leaving a hole in the layout. It's work to remove logic blocks and more work to engineer around the problem you just created. You absolutely only remove functionality from an existing die design if it's taking up massive amount of transistors/die-space and you need that space for something else and don't want to - or can't - go larger.
This is not a console-specific thing, this is a semiconductor thing.
Then I suspect PS5 will have it. I just find it odd how Microsoft emphasise they have VRS. There seems to be a theme of them emphasising a thing the opposition doesn't have such as them emphasising the locked clock rate.
Locked clock was the only thing and that was recent.
These companies aren't just talking about things in comparison to the competition, they are talking in respect to current gen, what is different, better and why.
I'm not saying their not also talking in respect to the competition also, just not as much as people would like to believe.
If MS sings praises of VRS doesn't mean PS5 doesn't have it. It means they think its a good technology that improves on what we currently have.
Same way they will sing the praises of zen2.
Inuhanyou
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If the underlying logic blocks of hardware that support VRS is in RDNA2 then Sony would have had to make a conscious decision decision to remove it, leaving a hole in the layout. It's work to remove logic blocks and more work to engineer around the problem you just created. You absolutely only remove functionality from an existing die design if it's taking up massive amount of transistors/die-space and you need that space for something else and don't want to - or can't - go larger.
This is not a console-specific thing, this is a semiconductor thing.
Thats what i figured. If its apart of amds rdna2 roadmap then it would have been sony going out of their way to remove it rather than not including it in their design which seems to me like a waste of time for no actual benefit beyond removing built in features that seemingly have a good benefit on consoles
What I understand is that VRS is MS's patented software implementation of non uniform rasterizatio/shading used in DX12. That software requires certain hardware features for it to work, and AMD's RDNA has such features along with any modern DX12 ultimate compliant GPU.
PS5 probably has the same hardware features, but might not include a similar software in their API to to leverage it, but the HW is exposed enough for devs to implement it on their own.
And then, there is the question of patent infringment. Devs may have to be carful with their own software implementation of non-uniform shading for it to not infringe on DX12 VRS patents, or maybe they might not care or not know about the patents. MS might care or not as well.
PS5 probably has the same hardware features, but might not include a similar software in their API to to leverage it, but the HW is exposed enough for devs to implement it on their own.
And then, there is the question of patent infringment. Devs may have to be carful with their own software implementation of non-uniform shading for it to not infringe on DX12 VRS patents, or maybe they might not care or not know about the patents. MS might care or not as well.
Yeah. VRS is what MS call it, but it's implemented in hardware and would presumably be doable through other APIs like Vulkan.
how would devs be able to implement it if it infringes of a patent. So even if it is there in hardware they would have to reinvent the wheel on a per game basis to get it working. Heck even that may end up infringing.
So even if it does have that hardware the ps5 may never gain access to it.
Will be interesting to see what happens with that
PSVRS.
I only take cash payments, Sony.
Thanks.
I only take cash payments, Sony.
Thanks.
That's how it seems to be to me...
A possible solution might be that devs don't bother. Another might be that after many devs not bothering MS open-sources the thing.
Or some key devs might bother to reinvent a wheel that does similar enough work without infringing on MS's specific patent and they disclose that shit to other devs. Maybe AMD or sony's ICE themselves already have done just that and it is all part of the standard libraries of the PS5 devkit.
Simultaneously, some devs might unkowingly infringe on MS's patent (or maybe playing-dumb-unkonwingly) and nobody will bother to check and nothing special will happen.
When RDNA2 lands on PC we'll probably see in an Anandtech deep dive whether AMD have their own VRS implementation / patent that doesn't infringe on or use MS's implementation / patents.
If AMD have done this independently, it's quite likely Sony will have that. But it does raise the question of why MS went to the trouble of using their own version of it, if it's in every RDNA2 based system anyway.
If AMD have done this independently, it's quite likely Sony will have that. But it does raise the question of why MS went to the trouble of using their own version of it, if it's in every RDNA2 based system anyway.
could all be
Or perhaps devs will just license it from ms themselves to implement on the ps5.
We really don't know. With it in Direct X and xbox series x I doubt devs will skip over it however.
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