Since PS4 I already at the limits of gddr5 density as is, I expect devs will be stuck on the 8gb kits for a while, just like the 360 kits that only had 512mb for so long.
PlayStation 4 (codename Orbis) technical hardware investigation (news and rumours)
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they shipped a game on ps3 recently. it's not odd to think they could have ps4 kits
http://www.ratloop.com/?games
Pretty sure 720 will have more apps, services than PS4. PS4 they are more focused on games. Moreover 720 is suppose to have windows rt ? and PS4 uses BSD which I am pretty sure uses less memory.
But it is all hypothetical. So it make no sense to discuss it, anways
It is far easier to give developers access to reserved RAM because it is impossible to take it away after a single game ships. As such, I consider it to be Sony's last hedge against Microsoft so that they avoid a scenario where they give developers as 7/1 split only to realize 2 years later it would have been a LOT better to have a 6/2 split for XYZ functionality. They absolutely want to avoid the scenario where the PS3 didn't have enough RAM for the OS for cross-game chat. That, plus not including a headset in the box has to be a huge reason why the Xbox 360 gained a large foothold in the US as the favored console for online multiplayer, particularly shooters.
So 2 years from now when Microsoft has revealed a bit more of their plans and Sony feels comfortable doing whatever they want to do in 1-1.5GB, they can give that remaining 1-2GB to developers for better use in their games.
So 2 years from now when Microsoft has revealed a bit more of their plans and Sony feels comfortable doing whatever they want to do in 1-1.5GB, they can give that remaining 1-2GB to developers for better use in their games.
If they don't have any concrete idea, why not define a soft limit and a hard limit, say... 5 GB and 7GB. In that way, games can use up to 7GB but must give up 2GB when nudged by the OS. Most developers -- 'specially cross platform ones -- will probably just optimize for 5GB, and Sony don't take the hit for OS sucking up too much memory upfront. 
If they really want to reserve that much memory for the OS, they would/should already have some tangible ideas on how to use them, not waiting for MS. ^_^
Development takes time.
If they really want to reserve that much memory for the OS, they would/should already have some tangible ideas on how to use them, not waiting for MS. ^_^
Development takes time.
If they don't have any concrete idea, why not define a soft limit and a hard limit, say... 5 GB and 7GB. In that way, games can use up to 7GB but must give up 2GB when nudged by the OS. Most developers -- 'specially cross platform ones -- will probably just optimize for 5GB, and Sony don't take the hit for OS sucking up too much memory upfront.
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Not commenting on the OS reserve, but what you're proposing would be close to impossible to reliably QA.
What happens If the game fails to give up the 2GB?
Bear in mind it could happen absolutely anywhere in the game.
And if you did do this, that memory is now empty and has to, be filled from a spinning disk, that's 10's of seconds.
... which is why most devs will just go with 5GB, which should be enough for now.
Games that go with 7GB upfront ? I am still keen to see a mixed WebKit + 3D game, like using OpenStreet/Google Maps to create our own race tracks.
Or full Playstation Home 2.0 integration.
Or sourcing live data from PSEye for in-game use.
There would be no such thing as the game can't give up 2GB. It would be designed and planned upfront.
Games that go with 7GB upfront ? I am still keen to see a mixed WebKit + 3D game, like using OpenStreet/Google Maps to create our own race tracks.
Or full Playstation Home 2.0 integration.
Or sourcing live data from PSEye for in-game use.
There would be no such thing as the game can't give up 2GB. It would be designed and planned upfront.
You can plan all you want, all it takes is an edge case but in the game and it might not free up the memory.
If it doesn't either the OS has to kill the game, or somehow deal with the situation.
The only otherway to deal with this is some sort of virtual memory with disk paging, which is at best less than an optimal situation.
And as I mentioned because the game is using that memory up until the point the user decides to do something else, it has to be filled, which is 10's of seconds to load whatever the user is trying to do and probably the same for the game to restore the state of it.
If it doesn't either the OS has to kill the game, or somehow deal with the situation.
The only otherway to deal with this is some sort of virtual memory with disk paging, which is at best less than an optimal situation.
And as I mentioned because the game is using that memory up until the point the user decides to do something else, it has to be filled, which is 10's of seconds to load whatever the user is trying to do and probably the same for the game to restore the state of it.
It can be planned.
The loaded data doesn't need to be 2GB. e.g. a web page is small, but the generated DOM tree can be big within seconds.
Stuff can also be loaded progressively.
Data can come from multiple sources, from HDD, streamed from the net, or generated live from the input devices.
The loaded data doesn't need to be 2GB. e.g. a web page is small, but the generated DOM tree can be big within seconds.
Stuff can also be loaded progressively.
Data can come from multiple sources, from HDD, streamed from the net, or generated live from the input devices.
@Silent_Buddha
Could Sony have set the OS at 3GB? Yes, it's possible.
Did Sony set the OS at 3GB? I/we don't know.
What I can say is that Sony surely has its reason to do what it's doing but I am not a big fan of the theory that at Sony they are deciding/changing their strategy/specs/features as they go because they want or need to mimic/match MS.
This theory suggest an incredible lack of foresight from Sony and an incredible level of disorganization while we know from Cerny that PS4 (content, specs, and features) is the product/result of years of planning, consultation and feedback.
It's unlikely that in 6 years Sony never had a clear idea about how much memory had to be reserved for the OS.
I am reluctant to believe that matching the adversary is better for competition than outmatching him, outsmarting him or anticipating him.
Surely Sony and MS answer the same questions but they so far didn't answer at the same way.
P.S.
What I said here for Sony applies to MS and Xbox as well.
Could Sony have set the OS at 3GB? Yes, it's possible.
Did Sony set the OS at 3GB? I/we don't know.
What I can say is that Sony surely has its reason to do what it's doing but I am not a big fan of the theory that at Sony they are deciding/changing their strategy/specs/features as they go because they want or need to mimic/match MS.
This theory suggest an incredible lack of foresight from Sony and an incredible level of disorganization while we know from Cerny that PS4 (content, specs, and features) is the product/result of years of planning, consultation and feedback.
It's unlikely that in 6 years Sony never had a clear idea about how much memory had to be reserved for the OS.
I am reluctant to believe that matching the adversary is better for competition than outmatching him, outsmarting him or anticipating him.
Surely Sony and MS answer the same questions but they so far didn't answer at the same way.
P.S.
What I said here for Sony applies to MS and Xbox as well.
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If they actually will reserve 3Gb for OS, it will be a huge mistake. There's not a one plausible reason to reserve this amount of ram for non game related tasks in game console...
For me all those additional services they advertising - share button, gameplay recording, facebook etc are obsolete - I don't want them, I don't need them, I won't use them. Everything that is not directly connected with improving actual gameplay should be considered as optional, additional sevice (module) that developer can use but does't have to.
All in all i hope that this is some kind of gossip which purpose is for Sony to reveal real OS footprint.
For me all those additional services they advertising - share button, gameplay recording, facebook etc are obsolete - I don't want them, I don't need them, I won't use them. Everything that is not directly connected with improving actual gameplay should be considered as optional, additional sevice (module) that developer can use but does't have to.
All in all i hope that this is some kind of gossip which purpose is for Sony to reveal real OS footprint.
Sony have never offered a pure games console, even the PS1 played music CDs.
PS2 played DVDs, CDs.
PS3 plays Blu-ray, DVDs, CDs, has a web browser, a digital store with games, movies and tv shows.
It has been obvious for a long time that the PS4 will do more than just game.
That doesn't make the 3GB OS rumour true and considering the source i can't even believe so many are actually taking it seriously.
Edit: i remember a few months back i asked timothy lottes about how much ram would the PS4 need to reserve for the OS, counting things like web browser, music, voice chat all open while gaming and he said 0.5GB would be more than enough.
This was pre-reveal, but all specs except the 8GB of ram were known.
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rockaman
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Well Sony could move that hard limit from 512 MB to 1.5 GB.
In this case, the available memory would still be going from 3.5 GB to 6.5 GB for games. That seems like a reasonable compromise between games and OS sharing.
Will BSD and PS4 services need more than 1.5 GB? I can't imagine it would. It's not a Windows/Mac that is doing so many things like word processing and tens or hundreds of internet tabs and 45 web browser extensions and torrenting and downloading multiple streams/files and such.
In 1 or 1.5 GB of OS RAM, I'm sure they can fit in all the essentials like Netflix/other streaming services, a clean browser, music playback, video/BD playback, video/audio chat parties, and game recording (and some of these tasks are done on the separate audio/video encoding/decoding chip anyway). I don't see why it needs so much more than that for the essentials.
I don't expect the home console environment changing so much honestly. It's still about movies, music, and games at the end of the day, so I'm glad PS4 doesn't seem to be trying to spread itself thin with OS services.
In this case, the available memory would still be going from 3.5 GB to 6.5 GB for games. That seems like a reasonable compromise between games and OS sharing.
Will BSD and PS4 services need more than 1.5 GB? I can't imagine it would. It's not a Windows/Mac that is doing so many things like word processing and tens or hundreds of internet tabs and 45 web browser extensions and torrenting and downloading multiple streams/files and such.
In 1 or 1.5 GB of OS RAM, I'm sure they can fit in all the essentials like Netflix/other streaming services, a clean browser, music playback, video/BD playback, video/audio chat parties, and game recording (and some of these tasks are done on the separate audio/video encoding/decoding chip anyway). I don't see why it needs so much more than that for the essentials.
I don't expect the home console environment changing so much honestly. It's still about movies, music, and games at the end of the day, so I'm glad PS4 doesn't seem to be trying to spread itself thin with OS services.
You could run a lot of background apps and have proper multitasking between them and the game. You could play the game, share a video on facebook, continue game, see you got comment on video, go back to facebook without quitting game.
No virtual-memory paging system on the console that the PC does have. You need to ensure for absolute worst case scenarios on the console where as the PC doesn't need to. It could also be the case that the console provides for buffers that the PC does not to ensure smooth operation.
A modern console competes with tablets and (big screen) smartphones. People no longer tolerate loading screens or sluggish UIs. Applications must start quickly, browser must support lots of open tabs, multitasking must work (there was a lot of whining about missing multitasking in the first versions of iOS and Windows Phone 7), applications must look good (with native res 1080p UIs filled with images and animations), multimedia softwares must work seamlessly (background music streaming, answering skype calls while playing, youtube + browser to check walkthoughs/cheats while playing, netflix, etc, etc). Basically you need to support the same feature set as modern tablets and smartphones, if you want to succeed.
All the new 1080p phones have 2 GB of memory. Internet browser and multimedia applications alone use all that memory. Even with 2 GB of memory these devices do frequently tombstone programs. That's not a big problem for a phone, because all the applications and data are stored to a fast internal flash storage. Unless consoles come equipped with large SSD drives, the applications + data needs to be loaded from a much slower (especially seek time) HDD. Thus reserving more memory to the OS + applications can improve the user experience (UI is always smooth, transitions are fast, multitasking is possible, browser tabs do not reload frequently, etc).
That touch pad in the PS4 controller would be perfect for controlling an internet browser and multimedia applications in the living room. But good experience needs good software and good software requires enough memory to run properly. Currently my PC Chrome browser uses 500 MB of memory and I have only 5 tabs open. On my iPad I keep around 5-7 tabs open at all times. If Sony/Microsoft is willing to convince me to do web browsing on their new consoles, they better allocate enough memory for the software. 512 MB is just not going to cut it if you want to compete with Apple and Google.
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