PlayStation 3 to feature Blu-Ray disc - Official!

PCEngine said:
It requires the stripping out of bonus material from the DVD so it's a hack.
Ok, you win.
DVD is a HACK of VHS - because it strips away movie previews that were found on most VHS.
DVD are also a stopgap solution(between VHS and HD-DVD obviously) that fragmented the VHS market by introducting extra player-hardware you need to play the hacked media.
 
DVD is a HACK of VHS - because it strips away movie previews that were found on most VHS.

I wish . They are still on most dvds and there is no way to skip them . Its friggen annoying
 
Could it be something that's region based?
I have yet to see any region 2/3 DVD have previews at the start (let alone previews I couldn't skip).
 
Could be. Here in R1 there are plenty locked in and forced for marketing purposes, though one can always Fast Forward through them at rapid velocity. Regardless, annoying as all get-out.
 
Still, I don't get how you consider Superbit a stopgap solution that is fragmenting the DVD standard (emphasis on the words "fragmenting" and "market").

This is the way I see it. SB is stop gap because:

1. It's not higher than standard DVD resolution.
2. It results in marginally better video quality by using a hack (stripping all bonus material) to gain more data storage space from a DVD.


You say Superbit (which requires absolutely no support from hardware) is fragmenting the market, whereas HD-DVD (which requires upgrading your hardware) is not fragmenting the market.

It's fragmenting the market because it has created a hacked psuedo sub-format so when a person goes to purchase a DVD movie, they now have to ask do I get the SB version or the standard version?

And you don't want fragmentation .... why isn't HD-DVD fragmenting the DVD standard then? Because it uses red laser?
What difference the colour of laser mean to the the end customer, in either case upgrade to the hardware is required.

Upgrading the hardware isn't a problem when you're getting something that's an order of magnitude better not to mention backwards compatible. It's an accepted technology jump. For example PS2 is not fragmenting the Playstation market because they are two different machines even though PS2 is backwards compatible with Playstation. It requires new hardware but it's delivering a lot more. Same with S-VHS, HD-DVD etc.

Superbit is a stop gap by Jimmy Rigging the DVD format to get a marginal increase in quality while losing other features.
 
It requires the stripping out of bonus material from the DVD so it's a hack.

Lemme get this straight:

I give jvd a floppy (disk A) with a powerpoint presentation ("Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About The GCN But Were Afraid To Ask") on it and a couple of word files (opcodes, pipeline latencies, etc.) and he enjoys.

However jvd being the visually oriented guy that he is, doesn't really care for all the boring fluff in the word files and would rather have a bang up PowerPoint presentation. So I give jvd a new and improved floppy (disk B), that lacks the word docs and has the new and improved PowerPoint presentation...

Now according to your logic, floppy disk B is a *hack*...

Superbit is a hack just like VHS-HQ both offering minor improvements without the need for a totally new mechansim.

Actually VHS HQ does require a new mechanism... VHS HQ (which BTW, does offer resolution increase) is a basically tightening of specifications permitted due to the advent of VHS HiFi (which brought additional heads to the standard VHS deck for recording and playback of the audio track)...


S-VHS
Blu-ray
HD-DVD

Actually according to your logic these are hacks too...


Not all S-VHS decks support S-VHS ET. Nor do does S-VHS even support LP mode on regular VHS either... Of course then there's W-VHS, D-VHS, VHS-C...

It's fragmenting the market because it has created a hacked psuedo sub-format so when a person goes to purchase a DVD movie, they now have to ask do I get the SB version or the standard version

You can say exactly the same about fullscreen and widescreen DVDs as well... So which of those is the hack?
 
PC-Engine said:
1. It's not higher than standard DVD resolution.
2. It results in marginally better video quality by using a hack (stripping all bonus material) to gain more data storage space from a DVD.
1. I love how resolution still seems to be the end-all be-all of movie quality for you.
2. They also use larger-capacity disks to offer even MORE storage for quality improvements--which most other don't and certainly substantially earlier releases didn't. They exclude extra features from the movie disk to offer as much quality as the DVD format is capable of (or at least the highest balance they think will please the most people). They also stitched extra content right back in with 2-disk offerings, so the only thing missing is commentary tracks. (Which most DVD releases still don't come with initially by and large--though they do tend to come in later on with Special Editions! Ooooh!)
It's fragmenting the market because it has created a hacked psuedo sub-format so when a person goes to purchase a DVD movie, they now have to ask do I get the SB version or the standard version?
"Do I get the Widescreen or Fullscreen? Do I get the "clean" version for the kids or the "unrated" version because I'd like to see the extras they didn't show in the theater? Do I get the DVD when it comes out immediately, or wait until they bundle it with the sequel? ...or release a Director's Cut? ...or and Extended Edition? Do I buy episodes singly when they come out, or wait until the boxed set?"

Yes Pat, you get all that and much much more! The market is plenty fragmented anyway. Superbit is just another drop in the bucket.
Upgrading the hardware isn't a problem when you're getting something that's an order of magnitude better not to mention backwards compatible.
...and that's why anything is acceptable when it's not causing a hardware upgrade. It's just targetting a different segment of the public. (And of course, being a new marketing gimmick to attract people's attention whether they're interested in it or not.)
Superbit is a stop gap by Jimmy Rigging the DVD format to get a marginal increase in quality while losing other features.
The sum total of loss here (since they offer Superbit Deluxe packages WITH the extras) would be commentary tracks, since they have to be overlaid over the movie itself and would take up space they want to devote otherwise. Considering that itself isn't utterly commonplace on initial releases (nor always appreciably good when they are included), the amount "hacked" is rather trivial. And for that the consumer is getting reasonably better visual quality (certainly no huge leaps, no) and heck, even just getting 5.1/DTS would be worth it for many folks, as that's still fairly uncommon among movies. (Common on audio-focused DVD's like concert recordings. And for movies even LESS common since many times it takes a new edition or re-issue to get to adding it in.)

As cops would say, "Move along, there's nothing to see here." By your logic, ALL DVD's are "hacks" since they're removing content (quality lower than what they could offer) to include Special Features as well as the other way around. Either way, there is a loss of one kind of content and a gain of another kind of content. This is why it's called a "trade-off" and aimed at different segments of the public. The only real "hack" to be annoyed at would be a company taking, say, a release on dual-layer and re-releasing the same thing at lower quality on single-layer later on to save production costs; net loss and no gains.

You're just spinning your wheels here, PC.
 
give jvd a floppy (disk A) with a powerpoint presentation ("Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About The GCN But Were Afraid To Ask") on it and a couple of word files (opcodes, pipeline latencies, etc.) and he enjoys.

However jvd being the visually oriented guy that he is, doesn't really care for all the boring fluff in the word files and would rather have a bang up PowerPoint presentation. So I give jvd a new and improved floppy (disk B), that lacks the word docs and has the new and improved PowerPoint presentation...

Now according to your logic, floppy disk B is a *hack*...

That's a flawed analogy. SB doesn't give the equivalent to a bang up PP presentation, it only gives a marginal increase in image quality not different/additional images. Regardless a hack is a hack whether there's demand for the hacked product or not. ;)

Actually VHS HQ does require a new mechanism... VHS HQ (which BTW, does offer resolution increase) is a basically tightening of specifications permitted due to the advent of VHS HiFi (which brought additional heads to the standard VHS deck for recording and playback of the audio track)...

Yeah but it's still a marginal increase that's why it's a hack unlike S-VHS.

Actually according to your logic these are hacks too...

Then you might want to re-examine the evidence.

You can say exactly the same about fullscreen and widescreen DVDs as well... So which of those is the hack?

But fullscreen and widescreen aren't hacks. They don't strip the DVD of bonus content and there's no increase in visual quality either. They're just different aspect ratios.

1. I love how resolution still seems to be the end-all be-all of movie quality for you.

Actually resolution is the limiting factor unless you like to watch your movies using freeze frames. If you watch DVD movies frame by frame then I could understand why you would think resolution isn't that important. :p

2. They also use larger-capacity disks to offer even MORE storage for quality improvements--which most other don't and certainly substantially earlier releases didn't. They exclude extra features from the movie disk to offer as much quality as the DVD format is capable of (or at least the highest balance they think will please the most people). They also stitched extra content right back in with 2-disk offerings, so the only thing missing is commentary tracks. (Which most DVD releases still don't come with initially by and large--though they do tend to come in later on with Special Editions! Ooooh!)

They don't use larger capacity discs. The size of a DVD-9 doesn't change because it has Superbit slapped on it. BTW people who have Special Editions don't usually buy a second copy of the Standard Edition. Heh I don't even know why you're explaining the reasoning behind SB DVDs. The reasons and methods are exactly why it's a stop gap solution using a hack. ;)

"Do I get the Widescreen or Fullscreen? Do I get the "clean" version for the kids or the "unrated" version because I'd like to see the extras they didn't show in the theater? Do I get the DVD when it comes out immediately, or wait until they bundle it with the sequel? ...or release a Director's Cut? ...or and Extended Edition? Do I buy episodes singly when they come out, or wait until the boxed set?"

Yes Pat, you get all that and much much more! The market is plenty fragmented anyway. Superbit is just another drop in the bucket.

Do all SB DVDs come with a second disc containing the bonus material?? So now you have to buy deluxe versions of SB to get them? :LOL:

By your logic, ALL DVD's are "hacks" since they're removing content (quality lower than what they could offer) to include Special Features as well as the other way around. Either way, there is a loss of one kind of content and a gain of another kind of content. This is why it's called a "trade-off" and aimed at different segments of the public. The only real "hack" to be annoyed at would be a company taking, say, a release on dual-layer and re-releasing the same thing at lower quality on single-layer later on to save production costs; net loss and no gains.

Er no, regular DVDs don't have the image quality lowered so that they can fit in bonus material. If the studios can't fit all the bonus material along with the movie they'll just put them on a second disc. They don't take out bonus material so that they have 100% disc capacity to increase picture quality. That's called Superbit. ;)
 
PC-Engine:

> It requires the stripping out of bonus material from the DVD so
> it's a hack. ;)

Superbit is just an alternative release. Like single and two disc edition DVDs. You're being ridiculous.
 
PC-Engine said:
You can say exactly the same about fullscreen and widescreen DVDs as well... So which of those is the hack?

But fullscreen and widescreen aren't hacks. They don't strip the DVD of bonus content and there's no increase in visual quality either. They're just different aspect ratios.
...but anamorphic widescreen DVD does give you better resolution compared to non-anamorphic widescreen or 4:3, and anamorphic does give you better visual quality.

Really PC-Engine, you are desperately trying to find some logic in your arguments after they have been shredded to pieces, by forgetting the issue that you first started and which was shot down, and then trying to patch your failure with nitpicking and totally irrelevant analogies.
 
rabidrabbit Posted:

> ...but anamorphic widescreen DVD does give you better resolution
> compared to non-anamorphic widescreen or 4:3, and anamorphic does
> give you better visual quality.

You seem a little confused. Anamorphic widescreen is when you squeeze a widescreen image to fit within the 4:3 aspect ratio. This is done because the PAL and NTSC specifications don't support native widescreen resolutions. So instead of wasting valuable lines of resolution on black borders you squeeze the image and enjoy a more detailed picture. But the actual resolution is the same. When you have black borders in the picture it is called a letterbox format (still in the 4:3 aspect ratio) and is not to be confused with widescreen which is the common term for the 16:9 aspect ratio.
 
cybamerc said:
rabidrabbit Posted:

> ...but anamorphic widescreen DVD does give you better resolution
> compared to non-anamorphic widescreen or 4:3, and anamorphic does
> give you better visual quality.

You seem a little confused. Anamorphic widescreen is when you squeeze a widescreen image to fit within the 4:3 aspect ratio. This is done because the PAL and NTSC specifications don't support native widescreen resolutions. So instead of wasting valuable lines of resolution on black borders you squeeze the image and enjoy a more detailed picture. But the actual resolution is the same. When you have black borders in the picture it is called a letterbox format (still in the 4:3 aspect ratio) and is not to be confused with widescreen which is the common term for the 16:9 aspect ratio.
No, its the opposite of what you described:
Anamorphic widescreen is when you stretch horizontally an image that is stretched vertically to 4:3, to fit within the 16:9 widescreen ratio.
It does increase the resolution 33% compared to a non-anamorphic widescreen.

Edit: corrected stretching and squeezing (i'm not sure if they are still right :) )
Anyway, here's a link that explains it better thatn I can http://gregl.net/videophile/anamorphic.htm
 
rabidrabbit:

> No, its the opposite of what you described:

It's exactly as I described.

> It does increase the resolution 33% compared to a non-anamorphic
> widescreen.

A non-anamorphic widescreen signal is a native one. For example, an anamorphic widescreen signal may have a resolution of 720x576 pixel while a widescreen signal would be 1024x576. You're confusing widescreen with letterbox.
 
rabidrabbit said:
PC-Engine said:
You can say exactly the same about fullscreen and widescreen DVDs as well... So which of those is the hack?

But fullscreen and widescreen aren't hacks. They don't strip the DVD of bonus content and there's no increase in visual quality either. They're just different aspect ratios.
...but anamorphic widescreen DVD does give you better resolution compared to non-anamorphic widescreen or 4:3, and anamorphic does give you better visual quality.

I think you're confused. Whether it's widescreen or Pan and Scan, it's still restricted to DVD resolutions. The actual image quality hasn't changed get it? The shape has changed not the image quality. The shape affects the visual experience not the image quality. It's like taking a widescreen framebuffer grab from a PSP game then cropping it and claiming the actual image quality has changed. I'm sorry but you're confused dude. Let me ask you this. What if a person only has a 4:3 tv? Is watching it in Pan and Scan mode on this tv worse than widescreen since you say the widescreen has better visual quality due to higher resolution? :LOL: How about if a person were to tapeoff the top and bottom 3rd of their 4:3? Has the new aspect ratio magically made the image sharper? More colorful? Less compressed? :LOL:

Really PC-Engine, you are desperately trying to find some logic in your arguments after they have been shredded to pieces, by forgetting the issue that you first started and which was shot down, and then trying to patch your failure with nitpicking and totally irrelevant analogies

Heh and what you apparently still don't get is the fact you can't prove it isn't a hack. Nothing was shot down btw unless you can answer the points I brought up. ;) :LOL:

You can sit there all day and try to come up with examples to try and prove it isn't a hack but it's futile dude. If you don't agree then move on get it? There isn't a right or wrong answer so trying to prove it's wrong is plain DUMB. ;)

I say it's a hack so get over it... :LOL:
 
By the same token, PC-Engine, why are you arguing with everyone else? If there isn't a right or wrong answer as you say, then your own responses here have been equally dumb.

Everyone else says it isn't a hack so get over it.
 
kaching said:
By the same token, PC-Engine, why are you arguing with everyone else? If there isn't a right or wrong answer as you say, then your own responses here have been equally dumb.

Everyone else says it isn't a hack so get over it.

Actually I was the first to state that SB is a hack. It was a statement not an argument. It became an argument when some people started to try and prove it isn't a hack which is futile because you can't.

If you'd passed your Reading Comprehension class you'd understand that I'm not trying to prove it's a hack as I already stated that it already is a hack. As a matter of fact I'm just shooting down the futile attempts by others to prove it isn't a hack which isn't dumb at all. It's quite amusing actually. It's like watching people try to prove UFOs exist then show them how you can't prove it. ;) :LOL:
 
Ah, but PC-Engine, your own reading comp is coming up short in this case. These people aren't trying to prove it isn't a hack, they are quite clearly stating it isn't. What you claim are "proofs" are actually attempts to reason with you because your own position is irrational.
 
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