Playstation 3 e3 thread 2

[DemoCoder]

"Gets 100% more performance from 35% more transistors and 37% more clock.

How is it able to dissappate this enormous amount of heat with a small vent at the top of the console?

Something just doesn't add up, you can't have everything, low power, high clock, large chip.

130nm vs 90nm. Secondly, architecture makes a big difference. Too many people are engaged in transistor numerology. Look at the XBGPU, it went with eDRAM, massive # of ALUs that can be reused by anything on demand just by going 90nm and dropping down to 8 ROP units.

 

[Acert93]

how is that when nVidia has been working on PS3 for more than two years?

That was a fierce debate here. Most press quotes were very vague... they could be taken as "The technology that will be in the PS3 has been worked on for 18mo" vs "The GPU for PS3 has been worked on for 18mo". In essence, since the PS3 has an adapted PC part (we already knew that a long time ago) both statements are true, even if they were not SPECIFICALLY making the PS3 part 18mo prior to the announcement.

Personally, a 300M transister GPU cannot be cheap. It looks very feature rich, but I am shaking my head in disbelief. 234M CELL + 300M GPU. Minus the eDRAM, that is 215M more transisters than the Xbox 360 (165CPU + 150GPU).

With a 150M lead in the GPU alone I would expect it to be more powerful, but the fact it is a PC like part it does not seem as custom built. I wonder specifically about the bandwidth limitation and developers trying to 128bit HDR like effects. We saw what happened in FarCry when this was turned on--it was a killer at high resolutions on GPUs with 32GB/s of bandwidth. I would hate to believe some of that silicone was wasted.

 

[Acert93]

GOW looks wayyyy better.

Hmmm After watching the KZ video and seeing the stills and comparing the GOW stills/video I would say they are on par. They look to be very similar technologically and have very similar artistic detail imo.

The big difference is art style. I saw a lot of that... we need to be careful comparing anime, gritty/life like, and stuff in between. GOW is going for a more superman look gritty look, KZ looked to be slightly stylized but gritty and believable.

I want to see GOW and KZ both run in realtime before I make a purchase decision As a FPS fan, I wonder what Bungie has in store...

 

[mckmas8808]

Killzone also had 3 to 5 times the amount of action and people on screen at the same time. I think we need to take that into account. But yeah they are about the same. Given different art styles.

 

[jvd]

Killzone also had 3 to 5 times the amount of action and people on screen at the same time. I think we need to take that into account. But yeah they are about the same. Given different art styles.

is kill zone a cgi game or actual game play ?


Anyway after rewatching everything elder scrolls was the best looking thing out there and the square real time render at the end of the x360 video was almost as good. Then followed closely by the gow / killzone 2 video .

But wow its going to be a fun 2 years with these things launching

 

[PC-Engine]

Can somebody post a link to the press conference? Thanks.

 

[cybamerc]

Gears of War looks like it's a generation behind that Killzone demo. If the actual game looks anything like the demo it easily pisses on anything M$ has shown so far.

 

[one]

Can somebody post a link to the press conference? Thanks.

Here. Posted on the page 16

 

[Ardrid]

Before I comment, I have a quick question for you guys. Where is the 218 GFLOPS coming from? I can't remember the formula for the life of me. I know that the SPEs are capable of 32 GFLOPS @ 4GHz, but I can't figure out how they got 218.

As to the PS3, all I have to say is I'm speechless right now. The specs are one thing (yes, we have to be careful about the numbers but you can't help but take notice), but the demos are something else entirely. I have yet to watch the press conf. (going to wait until tomorrow since it's late right now), but I have checked out the demos and all I have to say is they're amazing. The KZ demo and the dirtbike/rally demo blew me away, especially if they were both running in real-time like I think they were. They're probably the ones that impressed me the most. The Eye-Toy demonstration and the UE3 demo were also just as insane. I will say one thing about this coming generation (despite who "wins", though I'm going with the PS3 camp ): MS was definitely right when they called this the HD era because there's no way I'm going to be playing my PS3 on a standard TV.

 

[PC-Engine]

Thanks I knew it was somewhere in these 22+ pages.

 

[Geeforcer]

Killzone also had 3 to 5 times the amount of action and people on screen at the same time. I think we need to take that into account. But yeah they are about the same. Given different art styles.

is kill zone a cgi game or actual game play ?


Anyway after rewatching everything elder scrolls was the best looking thing out there and the square real time render at the end of the x360 video was almost as good. Then followed closely by the gow / killzone 2 video .

But wow its going to be a fun 2 years with these things launching

IMO Oblivion, while great looking, wasn't even the best looking game on Xbox.

BTW, screenshots:
http://www.elderscrolls.com/art/obliv_screenshots_01.htm

 

[DemoCoder]

I think framebuffer bandwidth for HDR has to be balanced against shader length. The more complex the shaders, the lower the fillrate, the less pressure on FB bandwidth. The RSX bandwidth issue is partially alleviated by the fact that it can render and fetch textures from either GDDR or XDR memory, or perhaps any FlexIO connected unit as well (SPE SRAM. Using SPEs to generate animated procedural textures anyone?)

 

[chavvdarrr]

Before I comment, I have a quick question for you guys. Where is the 218 GFLOPS coming from? I can't remember the formula for the life of me. I know that the SPEs are capable of 32 GFLOPS @ 4GHz, but I can't figure out how they got 218.

7 SPE @ 3.2 gives 168 GFLOPS in single precision

 

[Megadrive1988]

has it been determined what demos were realtime and what were pre-rendered CGI?

Motor Storm looked to good to be realtime. even on Cell+Nvidia powered PS3.

remember, the oldest trick in the book is to combined fairly impressive realtime graphics with MASSIVELY impressive CGI sequences. together, they leave the impression of awe, by carefully covering up any weaknesses of the "pretty good" realtime graphics.

I am not saying this is for certain to be the case with PS3's showing last night, but it has been used with almost every console introduction in the past.

 

[jvd]

During the demo, one thing was definitely clear to us; the environments looked amazing, showcasing all of the Xbox 360's great powers. All of the areas that were shown were both detailed and expansive, right down to the blades of grass on the field. In addition, there were many scenes that really showed the X360's ability to handle fire and lighting sources. As far as character design goes, it was pretty much the standard for the Elderscroll series; a dark, villanous bad guy, a lot of zombies and skeletons, and an unseen avatar that kicks an unholy amount of butt.

this is what ign has to say about it

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/614/614911p1.html

 

[nAo]

So some kind of logical UMA is there, pheeee, at least
Things are not as bad as I figured out last night then, RSX should have 55 Gb/s of aggregated bandwith

 

[V3]

So some kind of logical UMA is there, pheeee, at least
Things are not as bad as I figured out last night then, RSX should have 55 Gb/s of aggregated bandwith

With just 22 GB/s bandwidth for frame buffer, can it really do 1080p HDR @ 60fps for in game situation though ?

And what about AA, in this forum always talks about problem of AA and HDR, how is that solve ?

 

[phat]

Motor Storm looked to good to be realtime. even on Cell+Nvidia powered PS3.

Look at the jaggies on this screenshot of Motor Storm. I think it's realtime.

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748488/img_2786811.html

 

[mckmas8808]

With 1080p there's no need for 60fps. Isn't 60 fps interlaced the same as 30 fps Progressive.

 

[RichardCypher101]

These are just demos done on hardware shooting for expected performance. Take any Screenshot with old problems like "jaggies" with a grain of salt.

-Rich