Piracy in the 360?

[deathstar121]

MS dropped the ball on this one, all that money spent on security protection was a waste, because the guy that cracked the first xbox firmware a few months ago said that 360 firmware look the same as xbox.

 

[Tap In]

is there any way to change/fix this from MS's end?

well of course nobody knows for sure but just wondering about any ideas.

 

[MoHonRi]

From what I've read the hack just tells the Xbox360 that the disc is an original disc... bypassing the security on the DVD's media chack. This hack will be of no use getting non-signed XEX's to run. The ONLY use for this hack as of now is to boot pirated games...

I want me a next gen XBMC... Booting homebrew code still seems like it might be far off.


Edit - Tap in - sure MS could make their firmware (the xbox's not the DVD drive) do a checksum on the DVD's firmware... if it is not what it was expecting it could refuse to boot.... Lots of stuff could be done.

 

[-NakedZ-]

Agreed for all the consoles. The online component will be the primary deterrent modifying hardware/firmware/etc.

I dont think the PS3 is safe from hacking just becuase theyre putting the software on BR discs. I think we have to be careful to confuse the fact that the PS3 games will be ON blu-ray discs with whether or not they'll USE bluray discs. I'm thinking a vast majority of PS3 games would have been able to fit comfortably on DVD-9s. Filling up those BR discs costs money, those gigs and gigs of content don't just spring out of thin air.

They could always feel in the extra space with large dummy file(s) like they have done in the past. This may be irrelevant to the hacks overall, but if they make the dummy file(s) part of the code, it would render the image unshrinkable. And the larger the size the harder/slower the distribution online.

.Z

 

[AW0L]

MS better act fast while there still isnt many xbox360 out there. currently the team only got a single game to work by modifiying the firmware to accept that one game expect them to make a more generlized code to run other games and flashing software. and so far its only on one type of dvd drive. at least the specialist wont release the hack since its only good for piracy. but all the firmware holes have been made public. my guess the specialist is job hunting. MS offered a few hackers of the orginal xbox a job maybe the specialist is looking for the same deal.

 

[MfA]

Edit - Tap in - sure MS could make their firmware (the xbox's not the DVD drive) do a checksum on the DVD's firmware... if it is not what it was expecting it could refuse to boot.... Lots of stuff could be done.

Sandboxing those kinda requests isn't that hard.

Well, once again Im disappointed in a console manufacturer on security ... everyone with half a brain should have known that emulating a correct disc would be the easiest way to attack the next gen consoles. Both the firmware and all data traffic inside the drive should have been crypted. I assume they left this hole open because they wanted to put COTS drives in there, but it's coming back to haunt them.

Sony will probably do better, having designed their own drive from the ground up.

 

[Trawler]

That inquirer posting was already debunked at as false at gaming age by someone connected to people trying to mod the system.

I think you've got your wires crossed. A few months back there was talk of a mod that was going to be publically released. This is in regards to a firmware hack which (currently) is not availble to the general public. More here: http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EEukZpklFAhkcWwSgZ.php

Gotta admit, if this is true, what a goof by MS. It's incredibly difficult to crack signed code, but with a simple firmware hack on the drive to fool the xbox into thinking the disc is a DVD instead of DVD-R you can pirate software without a hassle.

 

[Diamond.G]

I wonder if piracy is the main thing MS was trying to prevent or is it non signed code that they are trying to keep from happening. The FW hack only seems useful for piracy.

 

[Platon]

I wonder if piracy is the main thing MS was trying to prevent or is it non signed code that they are trying to keep from happening. The FW hack only seems useful for piracy.

That is a big only, publishers I am sure care more about piracy than homebrew or whatever...

 

[function]

Couldn't Microsoft make an updated dash that checked for modified DVD firmware?

 

[one]

From what I've read the hack just tells the Xbox360 that the disc is an original disc... bypassing the security on the DVD's media chack. This hack will be of no use getting non-signed XEX's to run. The ONLY use for this hack as of now is to boot pirated games...

I don't know the structure of an Xbox 360 game software, but are all files on a disc signed, or only main execution file? Is it possible to modify data files and inject some code into a main execution file by using a buffer-overrun bug? If it's possible then you can run any code I guess.

Well, even if we can't find such a bug, we can have some fun by modifying model data in games like DOA4 or RRXX

 

[MfA]

Couldn't Microsoft make an updated dash that checked for modified DVD firmware?

If the communication with the drive is not crypted then you can easily sandbox such requests.

 

[deathstar121]

Couldn't Microsoft make an updated dash that checked for modified DVD firmware?

Well they could, but the problem is the design of the 360 and MS stupidity, you see they could prevent this on xbox if there wasn't a mod chip because the system requires a HDD to play all games, but 360 doesn't not require the HDD to play games so all someone has to do this is unplug there HDD and get past the update and play the game with no problems, plus it's easy to remove the update from xbox games, i do it all the time i cut off the update so it doesn't duke my damn Evox dashboard, MS really drop the ball on this one.

 

[nintenho]

Well they could, but the problem is the design of the 360 and MS stupidity, you see they could prevent this on xbox if there wasn't a mod chip because the system requires a HDD to play all games, but 360 doesn't not require the HDD to play games so all someone has to do this is unplug there HDD and get past the update and play the game with no problems, plus it's easy to remove the update from xbox games, i do it all the time i cut off the update so it doesn't duke my damn Evox dashboard, MS really drop the ball on this one.

Well, the system's OS isn't on the hard drive. So, maybe that could be updated?

 

[function]

If the communication with the drive is not crypted then you can easily sandbox such requests.

With something like a modchip, that could intercept a request for firmware version information?

 

[Diamond.G]

With something like a modchip, that could intercept a request for firmware version information?

Out of curiosity, would such a chip go in the drive or in the system? And would such a chip allow you to get around the fact that the drive is locked to the system?

 

[MfA]

With something like a modchip, that could intercept a request for firmware version information?

For instance.

 

[one]

Hmm, since it seems it's not OK to even mention if the security breach is true or false, I just quote here what Microsoft had to say about this issue at a blog written by MS employees:
http://gamerscoreblog.com/team/archive/2006/03/22/533826.aspx

The core security system has not been broken. However, it is reported that the authentication protocol between the optical disc drive and the console may be attacked, which if accurate could allow people to play illegally copied games. Our security team is aware of this and we are investigating potential solutions to this issue. The Xbox 360 platform was designed to be updated, and we are prepared to respond appropriately should any unauthorized activity be identified.

Everyone should keep in mind that Microsoft invests a great deal of time and effort to ensure that Xbox gamers enjoy the most powerful and exhilarating game experience available today. Genuine and unmodified Microsoft Xbox products provide gamers with the reliability, security, support and dynamic gaming experience that they expect. Microsoft works with a large group of legitimate business partners to sell and service genuine Microsoft Xbox products. Microsoft does not authorize or support any products or companies that modify or change the Xbox console in any way.