Pachter: Apple 2013 Console

[patsu]

Yeah, China's Internet infrastructure is new. Cellphone infrastructure and business models are also modern. Compared to EU and Asia, IMHO US's cellphone platform is backwards in thinking (Locked to providers, exclusive devices, argh !).

In cities, there are Internet cafe "everywhere". Some are 24 hours, but some can be a little em... messy. In rural areas, depending on how far you go, basic infrastructure may be lacking. Great food nonetheless, if you go to the right places.

I should visit China again (Yum !)

I'm still using it. It's slowly getting better, though nothing substantion at least on the iOS version - just read the blogs, the news from the site, and login to PSN to see what your friends are doing, check your and their trophies and do some comparing.

It's not available in US. Would be great if we can RemotePlay from it. ^_^


EDIT:
China's Internet Users Cross 500 Million
http://www.pcworld.com/article/248229/chinas_internet_users_cross_500_million.html

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Great food nonetheless, if you go to the right places.

I should visit China again (Yum !)

Once you get past the fur it's yummy indeed ^^

 

[wco81]

Do they have a lot of good Western restaurants?

 

[patsu]

Once you get past the fur it's yummy indeed ^^

... and feet and head and organs and deep fried scorpions !

Do they have a lot of good Western restaurants?

That's like going to Paris to look for General Tsao's Chicken. >_>

 

[wco81]

No but there are good Italian restaurants there.

Plus, there have been times when I wished there were Togos or Subways for grabbing a quick sandwich there -- used to be that all you'd see is a thin slice of ham on a baguette with either bread or mayo, no cheese, no "crudités."

Yeah I remember seeing an Amazing Race episode where they had to eat fried scorpions and other scary-looking things from street vendors in China.

 

[TheChefO]

Ah, that CD key would be an improved demo (i.e., pre-sales) system, which is very different from a "no used games" (post-sales) mechanism. The iOS model sidesteps the need for demo by making the software cheap, and easy to buy.

The IOS model is cheap software.

These games don't have anywhere near the budget of a Gears, COD, BF3, Uncharted, Killzone or any other game worthy of a retail box.

Don't forget though, ps3 and xb360 ALSO have cheap software available as Digitial download too. IOS isn't the only place to get $5 games. But $5 games are all you CAN get on IOS due to the limitations of the mediums.

 

[wco81]

I don't think it's the model so much as that's how the market has developed. People bought the cheaper games and developers kept making them because they could make money with them.

That's probably an extension of the previous mobiles games, the BREW stuff, and people didn't expect to game heavily.

But if 3DS and Vita are able to sell $40 and $50 games, there's no technical reason tablets can't either. The SOC of the Vita will be surpassed in a year or two, and then get better every year.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I don't think it's the model so much as that's how the market has developed. People bought the cheaper games and developers kept making them because they could make money with them.

I think we need to be cautious with such statements. A great many developers don't make money. They make titles that get lost in a sea of titles, and their time is wasted, on the whole. Same as the PC indie space, or indie music. The more players on iOS, the more competition. It could well be that like of EA could afford to invest more and create titles more deserving of people's money who are willing to pay. It could also be that whatever a company makes, someone somewhere will come along and undercut. That's not going to happen with AAA titles so perhaps that's an area that can be exploited.

 

[zed]

IOS cheap software!
Sure theres a lot of stuff free or 99c whatever but theres a lot of stuff now where they nickle and dime (*) you. For some games Ive heard the average cash they earn per person is greater $150. i.e. More than any console game!

though just looked at itunes NZ, the #1 grossing game is 'smurfs village' (free to play)
Top In App Purchases

BUCKET OF SMURFBERRIES$6.49
BUSHEL OF SMURFBERRIES$13.99
BARREL OF SMURFBERRIES$30.99
BUCKET OF SMURFBERRIES$6.49
WAGON OF SMURFBERRIES$124.99
WHEELBARROW OF SMURFBERRIES$64.99
BUSHEL OF SMURFBERRIES$15.99
WHEELBARROW OF SMURFBERRIES$79.99
BARREL OF SMURFBERRIES$38.99

(*)nickle and dime = WAGON OF SMURFBERRIES$124.99

 

[Jedi2016]

Yeah, that is just insane. Always a good idea to turn off in-app purchases if you're letting a child play on your iPhone.

 

[AlphaWolf]

More than any console game!

If you're going to count horse armor and what not, its probably not more than any console game. You could easily spend hundreds of dollars on gears of war if you bought all the crap.

 

[patsu]

No but there are good Italian restaurants there.

They are neighbors !

Western food is common in Asia, including China, thanks to fast-food chain and cafe. You'll find steaks, burgers, creamy soup, Tiramisu, wine and other western cuisines in cities. But just like Chinese restaurants in Paris, the western food in China are catered to the local tastes and styles. e.g., Pizza Hut also serves porridge in China. Other fast-food restaurants have followed suit due to the great success.

You'll still find high end, authentic western restaurants but their seats and supplies are understandably limited.

Plus, there have been times when I wished there were Togos or Subways for grabbing a quick sandwich there -- used to be that all you'd see is a thin slice of ham on a baguette with either bread or mayo, no cheese, no "crudités."

Yeah I remember seeing an Amazing Race episode where they had to eat fried scorpions and other scary-looking things from street vendors in China.

Besides price, one of the commendable things in traditional Chinese eateries is the ingredients are usually fresh. Seafood are always alive before they are cooked. Vegetables are sourced locally. The locals could tell if the cooked fish was freshly killed within a few bites. With rapid expansion, I am not certain how long this will last.

Familiar western food chain may not be safer. They hire workers whose interest is not in the business. They may be poorly trained and executed. I had a bad stomach after eating in a Pizza Hut.

OTOH, I have not had any issues eating in hole in the wall, family run stores yet. The shops may look like New Londo Ruins in Dark Souls (or World 3 in Demon's Souls) but the food was tasty. I followed the lunchtime office crowd to these locations.

The safest route is to surf sites like TripAdvisor. Fellow travelers have all sorts of tips and directions for the popular restaurants there.

 

[wco81]

I think we need to be cautious with such statements. A great many developers don't make money. They make titles that get lost in a sea of titles, and their time is wasted, on the whole. Same as the PC indie space, or indie music. The more players on iOS, the more competition. It could well be that like of EA could afford to invest more and create titles more deserving of people's money who are willing to pay. It could also be that whatever a company makes, someone somewhere will come along and undercut. That's not going to happen with AAA titles so perhaps that's an area that can be exploited.

I know but you would think the market would have consolidated by now, with the smaller developers giving up. That could lead to higher prices over time.

Or the "free-mium" model is popular for now but days may be numbered.

I will concede though that innovation may be coming to an end. Games like Cut the Rope and Fruit Ninja, and to a lesser extent Angry Birds, are basically the same things, requiring you to do multiple swipes, just with different graphics and the way the puzzles are constructed.

Then again, simplicity can sometimes be a good thing.

 

[patsu]

The IOS model is cheap software.

These games don't have anywhere near the budget of a Gears, COD, BF3, Uncharted, Killzone or any other game worthy of a retail box.

Don't forget though, ps3 and xb360 ALSO have cheap software available as Digitial download too. IOS isn't the only place to get $5 games. But $5 games are all you CAN get on IOS due to the limitations of the mediums.

Plants vs Zombies HD is $7.99 I think. The developers can release multiple versions/episodes to keep the $$$ coming from fans. If it hits frenzy status, there are merchandizing and royalties revenue stream. The free version also takes in ad revenue. The best thing here is you can play the same game on multiple devices.

Plants vs Zombies on XBL and PSN are $15 MSRP. Yes there are discounts. I get it for free as a PS+ subscriber. But they probably don't want to set a low price to cheapen download games.


Retail box for iOS software doesn't make sense because it's more efficient to go direct from a clean slate to these connected devices. Otherwise, you'll need to give a cut to the retailers. These devices don't generally take in discs or mem cards. The transfer process will be more clumsy.


As we speak, there are on-going efforts to develop and sell richer games via these devices. I don't see $60 games as the Holy Grail. It is but one model. I have read that some core game veteran is trying to make $20 core games work on iOS and Android. Once the $60 games go Platinum, they can often be bought at cheaper price anyway (Yes, $20)

There are also core gamers turning to "deeper" web games so that they can work and play at the same time on web browsers. If you do a search on VentureBeat, you should be able to find them. These can be F2P since the heavy users will essentially foot most of the bill.

Then there is OnLive and other network games to workaround the weak DRM on iOS and Android devices.


It may be too early and too eager to write off iOS and Android for gaming. These platforms are here to stay. We, the consumers, have ample time to work things out with the developers and publishers -- even if the road is windy.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Plants vs Zombies HD is $7.99 I think. The developers can release multiple versions/episodes to keep the $$$ coming from fans. If it hits frenzy status, there are merchandizing and royalties revenue stream. The free version also takes in ad revenue. The best thing here is you can play the same game on multiple devices.

That only works for a tiny number of games though. "Swipe based physics clone 348" is only going to have its revenue from what it sells, which is likely very little. For the big publishers to make money on iOS, they need a more trustworthy system. Yes, they lose plenty on titles that bomb on consoles, but they know the AAA titles can and will pay out. On iOS at the moment you ahve no idea what'll work and what won't. There's the possiblilty that the pub could spam the market with zillions of naffy games until one gets cult status to pay for all the others, but everyone else is also spamming the market with naffy games. What the pubs can do that Joe Indie can't is invest in top-tier titles, and they're currently an unproven market.

 

[TheChefO]

That only works for a tiny number of games though. "Swipe based physics clone 348" is only going to have its revenue from what it sells, which is likely very little. For the big publishers to make money on iOS, they need a more trustworthy system. Yes, they lose plenty on titles that bomb on consoles, but they know the AAA titles can and will pay out. On iOS at the moment you ahve no idea what'll work and what won't. There's the possiblilty that the pub could spam the market with zillions of naffy games until one gets cult status to pay for all the others, but everyone else is also spamming the market with naffy games. What the pubs can do that Joe Indie can't is invest in top-tier titles, and they're currently an unproven market.

Not to mention I don't think IOS devices have an HDD port anywhere that I can see ... so good luck getting 7GB+ AAA game(s) on there...

And have fun waiting for that download too... Assuming of course that it won't put you over your monthly data cap.

IOS is the epitome of casual gaming.

Cheap costs for cheap experiences. Gaming is a side benefit to the true draw of the devices (up to this point).

Nobody is rushing out to the store to buy an ipad/iphone so they can game on it. They buy them for other purposes and as a sidenote, they can also waste some time with a cheap game or two in their downtime.

Expecting that this ho-hum $5 game experience will draw users to the livingroom ibox isn't it.
I think Apple knows that. I think they also know that the majority of the functionality of the idevices and apps don't directly relate enough to draw there either.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Nobody is rushing out to the store to buy an ipad/iphone so they can game on it. They buy them for other purposes and as a sidenote, they can also waste some time with a cheap game or two in their downtime.

That's a chicken and egg argument though. The fact no-one's doing so now doesn't prove that no-one would be willing to buy AAA titles on an iOS box that's designed for the purpose. The draw of the device is the hook to then lead onto gaming, potentially, in the same way PS360 gaming was the hook to get people to buy devices that lead onto consuming media. I don't think the controls are there for conventional games on iOS, but lets say FIFA 13 released with a controller that worked on iPad, and iPad supported HDMI. There's a compelling launch vector there to establish the console gaming experience on iOS. FIFA 12 sold 900k copies on iOS in its first week, out of 3 million across all devices (PC, XB360, PS2, PS3, Mac, Wii, PSP, 3DS). That's a large piece of pie for iOS in these early days.

Of course we also see it much cheaper on iOS ($10 on iPad, $5 on iPhone), and EA went with a $1 sale over Christmas, so they are currently looking at a much lower price, which could be the real issue getting AAA games onto the device.

 

[wco81]

Do they leverage the PC/console games and port to iOS or is the iOS a completely different game?

The iOS version of FIFA may be pure gravy. Plus, if they're smart, they'd let you play games on the iOS version during the day and then sync up with the console and PC versions at night to continue your seasons.

One thing that's more interesting is that mobile is more wide open. So there are NFL games form Gameloft in addition to the Madden port on iOS. On consoles, you're limited to Madden and on PC, they stopped making it.

 

[patsu]

That only works for a tiny number of games though. "Swipe based physics clone 348" is only going to have its revenue from what it sells, which is likely very little. For the big publishers to make money on iOS, they need a more trustworthy system. Yes, they lose plenty on titles that bomb on consoles, but they know the AAA titles can and will pay out. On iOS at the moment you ahve no idea what'll work and what won't. There's the possiblilty that the pub could spam the market with zillions of naffy games until one gets cult status to pay for all the others, but everyone else is also spamming the market with naffy games. What the pubs can do that Joe Indie can't is invest in top-tier titles, and they're currently an unproven market.

The publishers are already experimenting with iOS games. They will adopt the tactics that make them money at the moment. Dual stick games like FPS are may not work well on pads but adventure games, RPG, RTS, puzzle games, music, education, driving games can work, or work better in some cases.

I used to think dual stick games are crucial for core gamers, but when I look at kids gaming on iOS and DS, I realized that there is already a sizable population of touch gamers today. They may be young today, but they are used to touch gaming, not dual sticks gaming.

The bigger problems for iOS are DRM and the low tech specs. But you don't really need high tech to create a hardcore games. DS games are good examples.

DRM is harder to overcome, but developers may use online strategy to sidestep it.

I think Vita and 3DS Circular Pad are important to bridge the gap today, but both consoles will definitely capitalize on the touch interface. e.g., The Vita OS is completely driven by responsive touch UI. It doesn't use the sticks at all.

 

[patsu]

Do they leverage the PC/console games and port to iOS or is the iOS a completely different game?

The iOS version of FIFA may be pure gravy. Plus, if they're smart, they'd let you play games on the iOS version during the day and then sync up with the console and PC versions at night to continue your seasons.

One thing that's more interesting is that mobile is more wide open. So there are NFL games form Gameloft in addition to the Madden port on iOS. On consoles, you're limited to Madden and on PC, they stopped making it.

Yes, some publishers are already taking this approach. The iOS version of the game complements the PS360 titles. It may work but I suspect bigger success will come to those who target the iOS base directly instead of the same dragon slaying stuff. FIFA is definitely interesting to follow.

The other way is to look at DS and port the "right" games over. I think dual stick gaming and touch gaming can grow and mingle for now. There is no need to reject either one.