Official PS3 Thread

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Gandalf said:
ChryZ said:
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=80000002&sid=ajOFHYZNeATU&refer=topj

Babel fish translation is not helping much, but I think the article indicates Cell mass-production in 2004. Could someone with japanese reading skills verify this?

Not quite right. The article says, that Sony wants to show the first Cell in the current fiscal year (until March 2004).

http://www.gamefront.de/


Engrish from excite.co.jp

Vice-President Sony Kutaragi: It is a new style MPU "CELL" trial product within the current fiscal year.

June 20 (Bloomberg): Sony Computer Entertainment (S C E) President Ken Kutaragi (Sony vice president) is Sony opened in the city of Tokyo on the 20th. Prospect that it is a regular general meeting of shareholders and a trial product can be completed during the current fiscal year (term ended March, 2004) about the new model MPU under development (micro processing unit) "CELL (SE RU)" It clarified.

CELL is MPU which three companies, S C E, Toshiba, and U.S. IBM, are developing jointly. detailed -- just -- although three company of ? have not announced officially -- MPU for personal computers, such as U.S. Intel, -- video It has a function suitable for the exchange and it is expected that it is adopted as the succeeding machine of the home video game machine "Playstation 2" of S C E, pocket apparatus, a server, etc.

Company length explained " I am carrying out deployment large-scale as future business, and want to come" while saying in the general meeting, "Development is going smoothly and it can do presentation as a trial production system during the current fiscal year."

Sony is ? about 200 billion yen before [ three years ] the 05 fiscal year because of development and production of CELL. ??. The Nagasaki factory of S C E is reinforced as a base from the quantity of production. Toshiba is the site of the Oita factory. A plan to invest a total of 200 billion yen inside, and establish a new line. Construction work is started at the end of June, and it is in the 04 fiscal year. Mass production is due to be started in the second half of the first half.

In a market, it is concluded that manufacture of a trial product has the large probability performed at the Oita factory of Toshiba. ???.

CELL which processes mass data at high speed -- the same -- data -- high-speed -- it can process -- ? which needs ? DRAM (it is a write-in read-out memory at any time [ which needs memory maintenance operation ]) ? -- S C E, Sony, and Toshiba -- January, this year -- U.S. rum of a high-speed DRAM technical development special occupation company The bus company and the licensing agreement were concluded. "Yellowstone (tentative name)" of Rambus Based on the specification called, Toshiba and an ERUPIDA memory are developing Present DRAM.

The stock price closing price of Sony is 3520 yen of 20 yen (0.6%) ? compared with the previous day.
 
I think it's clear to anyone keeping up that Cell is on schedual and the work comming out of STI-Austin has been consistent and that the concurrent software development is now taking precedence as the basic architecture's development is wrapping up. Several of the core group from IBM that defined Cell with Toshiba/Sony have moved on to concurrent projects AFAIK.

If this extends to the PS3 based varients I do not know at this time. Yet, with the state of the architecture, and the people whose worked on it, I have little doubt that it'll fail to impress. Needless to say, if current ideas are correct they have plenty of time to tweak the architecture and get yeilds and bugs out via use in electronic devices and more likely than not, PSP.

Stuff like this is more or less 'Damage Control' for the useless masses who listen to places like Sp0ng and actually believe Cell is behind. I realise posts like this diminish the effect, but I can't wait to see people's reactions when this all drops... going to be like the last time they opened their mouths...
 
Was this ever shown ? or made ? or is just something they planned ?

I am not 100% certain, however it was more real than say the EE2 and GS2, which never materialized in 2002 (Sony's Phase II plan)

search Google, I know you'll find something on it. I believe it was made, and shown, don't know if it went into actual use, beyond a prototype.
 
A GScube based off PS3 would be incredible, 50 1TFLOPS Cell chips in a huge box anyone? With GB's of Yellowstone ram and hordes of eDRAM.
 
Paul said:
A GScube based off PS3 would be incredible, 50 1TFLOPS Cell chips in a huge box anyone? With GB's of Yellowstone ram and hordes of eDRAM.
If the Cell architecture is really that scaleable, I wouldn't be suprised to see a box like that taken the #1 position at www.top500.org, one worked through lunch-break, nice PR :)
 
ChryZ said:
Paul said:
A GScube based off PS3 would be incredible, 50 1TFLOPS Cell chips in a huge box anyone? With GB's of Yellowstone ram and hordes of eDRAM.
If the Cell architecture is really that scaleable, I wouldn't be suprised to see a box like that taken the #1 position at www.top500.org, one worked through lunch-break, nice PR :)

Question is will it have the BANDWIDTH ;)
 
Wouldn't even matter if it had enough bandwidth or if it was functional or not, people would see 50TFLOPS and go OHHHH AAHHHHH.

Kinda like GScube, it was imposible to develope for, Sony admittted this.
 
Paul said:
Wouldn't even matter if it had enough bandwidth or if it was functional or not, people would see 50TFLOPS and go OHHHH AAHHHHH.

Kinda like GScube, it was imposible to develope for, Sony admittted this.

To make it into the Top500 it will need BANDWIDTH. ;)
 
PC-Engine said:
To make it into the Top500 it will need BANDWIDTH. ;)

And we all know that embeddedRAM doesn't supply that.... :rolleyes:

Me thinks IBM will have something utilizing a Cell derivative, perhaps along the lines of their original folding projects.
 
Vince said:
PC-Engine said:
To make it into the Top500 it will need BANDWIDTH. ;)

And we all know that embeddedRAM doesn't supply that.... :rolleyes:

Me thinks IBM will have something utilizing a Cell derivative, perhaps along the lines of their original folding projects.

For supercomputing that's called a bottleneck ;)

Where's the TB's of shared memory? Where's the TBs of bandwidth? :LOL:

BTW look up the realworld performance throughput of IBM's supercomputers, they're around 55% :oops:
 
Paul said:
Kinda like GScube, it was imposible to develope for, Sony admittted this.
That quote made me googling up some infos about the GSCube:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.05/gs3.html said:
"The GScube worked great," says Softimage programmer Alexandre Jean Claude. "And access to 64 processors will make software design very interesting."

http://ne.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/2000/09/0912sce_eb.html said:
"Final Fantasy," being produced by Square in full computer graphics (to be released in the summer of 2001 in North America and fall in Japan). It showed an image of a woman swimming with her hair floating in water. This scene was depicted realtime using 16-processor GScube (16 of PS2's Emotion Engine and 16 graphics LSIs carrying 8x DRAMs compared to PS2 LSI). Changing the eye direction as well as the position of light source, the demonstration emphasized that it was a computer graphics image being calculated on the spot.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php(que)id=8750 said:
David Lau-Kee, President of PlayStation 2 middleware developer Criterion Studios, has confirmed astonishing details of the recent SIGGRAPH expo, including the company's real-time demo of the CG movie Antz.[...]Sony has made the leap to the next generation of real-time graphics. Period. Although this level of technology is unlikely to be incorporated into games within five years, you can expect to be playing titles that look virtually real in the near future.

Some studios with GSCube experience:

dsc_0061.jpg
 
To this end, he showed us a diagram of a project Sony calls "GScube." It features 16 PS2s with a video merger all wrapped up in a single box. The device is extremely powerful. But, as Okamoto deadpanned, "programming of this is...very difficult."

http://www.gamespy.com/gdc2002/okamoto/index2.shtm


Look whose saying the thing is great? Square, which Sony owns a part of, Criterion Studios the middleware dev for ps2.

If you thought PS2 was hard to develop for, imagine 16 of them put together in one box. Only the biggest studio's with huge budgets would get good usage out of the thing.


I did find this quote VERY interesting though..

To encourage coders to ramp up their parallel programming skills for the future, the company is already showing off a limited-edition prototype of PlayStations to come - called the GScube - hoping that game developers will find it irresistible. The GScube, unveiled at Siggraph 2000, is the fastest, most flexible silicon ever created for gameplay, and it will serve as a training ground for the coders who'll write games for the next PlayStation.
 
Interesting article....

Link

All the world's a console....

Someday, an enterprising graduate student in the history of technology will write a dissertation on great product afterthoughts. All of those electronic devices, systems and programs that were created to fill gaps in the catalog, or as stopgaps to hold off the competition until the next big company product comes along, the Hail Marys of dying divisions, and the cut-rate baby brothers created to hoover up bargain buyers.

It is a shockingly distinguished list -- suggesting that there may be more to desperation, inertia and cynicism in product design than we often give credit.

For example, this list of afterthoughts includes the Intel (Nasdaq: INTC) 8088, a chip with a compromised 8-bit word/16-bit bus architecture that was mostly designed for Intel customers too cheap or too spooked to buy the full-blown 16/16 Intel 8086. However, one of those tightfisted customers was IBM (NYSE: IBM) , which put the bargain chip in the original PC, thus making the lowly 8088 perhaps the most important electronic component in history.

Or consider Microsoft (Nasdaq: MSFT) DOS, the precursor to Windows and the most important software program of all time. It was basically Bill Gates buying a program on the cheap from a little neighbor company in Seattle in order to sneak a quick deal with Big Blue while a competitor, Digital Research, dithered.

Then there's Netscape Navigator, an unexpected replacement product for a company that originally was planning to make computer games . Or the first microprocessor, the 4004, built to make a quick buck off a Japanese calculator company and help subsidize Intel's memory business.

Or the last Apple (Nasdaq: AAPL) IIs, which achieved a balance of performance, elegance and manufacturability never again equaled in the computer business, even as the design team had its head on Steve Jobs' chopping block. Or, for that matter, the Macintosh itself, which was a side project operating in the shadow of Apple's vaunted new flagship, the Lisa.

The list goes on and on -- and serves as a vivid warning that the race doesn't always go to the well-planned, the triumphant and the best-hyped.

Not Just Another Upgrade

And that brings me to an interesting news announcement that came, almost unheralded, at the end of last week. Sony (NYSE: SNE) announced that, early next year, it would begin selling a new version of the PlayStation 2 game console, dubbed the PSX by Sony and the PS 2.5 by posters on the Web.

OK, fine, ho-hum. Another upgrade to a kid's computer game player. Who cares? You can see why the announcement didn't get much attention.

But the more you study the announcement, the more apparent it is that Sony is inching its way toward something extraordinary -- maybe even revolutionary.

Look again at the PSX and its specs. Its guts remain the PS2, the world's most popular game player. But around that core, Sony is going to wrap a 120 GB hard drive, a recordable DVD RW/R drive, a TV tuner, an Ethernet port and a Memory Stick slot. It will also feature USB 2.0 support and a slot to plug in Sony's upcoming Gameboy competitor, the PSP portable gaming system.

The price? Speculation ranges from $500 at the high end (the cost of those components today) to $299 at the bottom. I'll bet it's closer to the latter, even if Sony has to lose money on every box for a year or so.

Despite its pedigree, the PSX isn't a game console -- something even Sony admits by calling it an entertainment system -- and it originates not from the company's Computer Entertainment group, but from the mother company. Sony also isn't taking a big risk here -- the PS3 is still slated for late 2004-2005, and the PSX still uses the aging PS2 processor engine. So if the new console fails, the company still retains full deniability.

The End of the PC?

Yet, the more you study the PSX announcement, the more you sense that something important is happening here, all of it camouflaged by the low-key nature of the announcement. Don't worry, folks, just another game player for your kids -- except, of course, once you put it on top of your TV, why do you need a DVD player or a VCR? Or Tivo? Or your PC?

Look at those specs again, and the price. Now tell me again: Why do you need your personal computer?

For the last three years in this column, I've been saying that the personal computer era is essentially over. Now the shape of the new world of home information is at last becoming clear. It looks like this:

The personal computer, now commoditized, retreats to two forms: the laptop/tablet machine you carry around, and the home network server hidden in your attic or closet. The latter is supported by sizable quantities of memory storage.

Processor intelligence embedded throughout the house -- in appliances, home controllers, etc. -- some of it with displays for Web access, all of it linked to the server (via Wi-Fi or the home's existing electrical wiring).

Broadband into the house, probably via cable. Low-cost printers , scanners and other peripherals scattered to various locations as needed.

An entertainment box, attached to the high-definition TV/digital music system for games, video and audio recording, Web access and anything else requiring high-quality media processing.

All of sudden, you see where the prosaic new PSX fits, particularly once it morphs into the PlayStation 3 with a powerful new processor engine. And especially once Microsoft responds with a new-generation Xbox of comparable capabilities and sets off a big price and performance war.

Tentative Sidestep into a New Business

Now, throw into this business equation the fact that there is a new generation of tens of millions of kids out in the United States, Japan and Europe, for whom the PS2, Xbox or Gamecube is even more a fixture of their daily lives than the personal computer, the legions of whom will instantly hector their parents to buy the next-generation platform the instant it appears (the world's greatest sales force), and you have the ultimate electronic Trojan horse into the home market.

"Gee, we bought the new Playstation for Billy, but then we discovered that we can surf the Web and download music and record TV shows and process family photos ... and gosh, it's like we spent all of our time in the living room these days. I hardly ever get back to my desk in the den."

Caught between a fading Vaio product line and a threatening Microsoft, Sony has a made a tentative, but perhaps momentous, sidestep into a whole new business. The PSX could become another soon-forgotten failure, but it may also prove once again that in high tech, desperation is sometimes the mother of great invention.

Of course, none of this could possibly be true. The personal computer industry is a huge, multibillion dollar, mature industry. And this is just another game machine for my kids -- the kind of thing they play Tony Hawk 4 on.

Besides, if it's such a big deal, why didn't Sony make a bigger thing out of the announcement?
 
Deepak said:
Interesting article....

The End of the PC?

This is nonsense. The PSX is not designed to compete with the PC. It simply
replaces some of the functionality found in today PCs with a more ergonomic approach. It makes sense to have a DVD recorder in your living room, as well as a Tivo and a game console. While you can do all this stuff on your PC, it's just not practical. On the other hand, browsing the web and writing documents is much better using a monitor an a keyboard.
The PSX only competes with the PC if all you use your PC for is playing games or downloading MP3s. It is hardly a revolutionary product.

I have a hard time understanding all the hype about the set-top box market. Both Sony and M$ seems to be eager to capture this market, but so far it has proven unprofitable. I understand that they want to control the
distribution of content on demand, but I'm not convinced that this is what
people really want. Divx is a good indication that the public will reject any pay-per-play scheme the big IP monopolies come up with. Instead of wasting time on restrictive DRM schemes, they should try and give the consumer what he wants, just like Apple with its Music Store.
 
I agree with pcostabel. The PSX probably has nothing to do with a PC replacement. The PS3 on the hand... maybe.

I've found one flaw in that piece: It says that PS3 will be out late 2004-2005.:LOL:
 
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