megadrive0088
Regular
This should be the minimum graphics we can expect from the 1st generation of games on Nintendo's next console.
Official Nintendo's Next Game Platform Thread
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Panajev2001a
Veteran
jvd said:mabye mabye notmegadrive0088 said:This should be the minimum graphics we can expect from the 1st generation of games on Nintendo's next console.
I think GCN 2 should be able to push quite better graphics than that
DeanoC said:
I would not be so sure about that. The DMCA has already been invoked in cases involving compatibility, one printer company used it to outlaw ink cartridges from a competitor for example.
A law will cover any shape it can be bent or stretched into covering, with the help of high-salary lawyers.
PS2's CPU core itself is 32-bit. It can do 64-bit integer SIMD ops too, but that doesn't make it a true 64-bit CPU. The VUs are 128-bit in the sense they work on packed 32-bit FP numbers AFAIK.
Why are you so hung up on address range? That's not the only benefit of a processor at all, and definitely not an advantage in a gaming console. 64-bit GPRs and instructions allow larger (more precise) numbers to be processed in a shorter amount of time. Read this: http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=55000265
*G*
Stefan Payne
Newcomer
Tahir said:
Why ??
There is a Cube that can play DVD movies.
But only for the japanese market and from Panasonic...
Its called the 'Q'.
Stefan Payne said:
yeah nice, especially because 3 people own it and it's not going to be released outside japan...... now back to reality....
zidane1strife
Banned
megadrive0088 said:This should be the minimum graphics we can expect from the 1st generation of games on Nintendo's next console.
Actually, I´d say Toy story 2 esque graphics(not in a technical sense, but as in what the casual consumer would say...), are not out of the question for first gen nintendo titles...
Grall said:
The ink cartridges have copy protection (I know it sounds crazy but its true), a chip inside the cartridge has to authicate itself, the clones emulate the authication which maybe illegal in the US in the DMCA. No emulator has yet to be attacked by the DMCA. If the DMCA applied why hasn't MAME been proscuted?
Grall said:
Err NO. Sorry but you are way off base, first PS2 MIPS R5900 is a true 64 bit processor. If you want to be precise it has a 32bit instruction range, and twin 64 bit ALUs and 32 128 bit GPRs. It also has parallel instructions that are capable of operating on 2 64 bit integers upto 16 8 bit integers similtanously. The only thing it doesn't have 64 bits of is address range (which isn't really a problem for a console currently).
All the aces hardware articles show is that a 64 bit processor is faster at 64 bit operations, the thing your missing is why do you want to use 64 bit integers? What in a game requires that level of accuracy?
I have never in all my years of game development every needed or talked to anyone who has every needed 64 bit integers. Not one, the only time I have every need >32 bit precision are for doubles (FP64/FP80) or in address range (recently Tim Sweeney has mentioned > 4 Gig RAM and I have had to code aroung the memory address limitation of 32 bit address range (I was processing a texture of over 5 Gig)).
Apart from advanced numerical situations 64 bit integers are not needed. The few fields that geniunely benefit from them involve very complex integer maths, which are rarely used in games. (Things like encyption which involves high precision numbers and rational numerics (where floating point number are not used due to there lossy nature) ).
Given a choice between a faster 32 bit CPU or a 64 bit CPU most console developers would choose a 32 bit CPU.
jvd said:
Maybe, if 64 bit is faster, go for it. It there is truely no difference (same size IS, same speed, same amount of memory for context switches etc) and you have to pick, it would probably depend on cross-platform or not (porting code between bit lengths can be interesting), actually for future porting you'd probably keep to 32 bit for a few years. But maybe 5 years from now (if all PC are 64 bit) and there is no difference, I would then default to 64 bit mode.
In the case of hammer its likely that its a 64 bit chip thats 32 bit mode has an overhead (I haven't looked but its probably got 64bit ALUs etc that can be artificially restricted to 32 bit to ensure binary compat with x86-386 IS). IMHO hammer would have been just as effective as a 48bit chip (its actual address range), most uses will involve the extra 16bits of address space not the arithmetic length (except to calculate addresses...)
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind 64 bit ALUs (PS2 has them) but if it doesn't affect consoles games either way. We just ignore it, the fact that the PS2 CPU has an extra 32 bits of headroom when I do c = a+b over Xbox CPU doesn't affect 99% of the code.
Hopefully I haven't come across anti 64 bit, its just that for console games the potential advantages aren't that great.
I think this did go to court (the ink cartridge deal) and the printer manufacturer won (I think it was HP).
Not entirely sure on the specifics but it wasn't the ink manufacturer suing IIRC but defending their actions to prevent users from using clone cartridges with the chip authentication.
Not entirely sure on the specifics but it wasn't the ink manufacturer suing IIRC but defending their actions to prevent users from using clone cartridges with the chip authentication.
DeanoC said:
There are actually several instances in MAME where the DMCA is violated(NeoGeo graphics encryption, Capcom CPS2 program encryption are 2 big targets), but lots of the code was written before DMCA was passed. The MAME guys try to keep as out of the spotlight as possible by not emulating really new titles(Metal Slug 4, King of Fighters 2002) or games that are very popular(Golden Tee Golf series: driver written, but not released....Dance Dance Revolution: no one wants to get near this for fear of being prosecuted).
Evil_Cloud
Veteran
I hope it will have more then graphics to offerPaul said:
DeanoC said:
"A few places"? LOL dude, tons of arcade games, even from WAY back use encryption in one form or another to make piracy more difficult. Gauntlet from 1984 uses a bank-remapping chip called Slapstic that is quite intricate and took literally years to figure out completely by emulator programmers. Some games even use encrypted CPUs it seems. Elevator Action from the same era is one of those I believe.
The reason nobody has sued anyone involved with the mame project is probably that so far nobody's been arsed to. These old games don't bring in any moolah anymore so it's not worth it. To emulate a PS2 however you need to emulate its copy protection scheme, and if someone does that Sony would strike like a hawk.
They almost got PS emulators outlawed for chrissakes, only reason they didn't succeed probably was the PS pretty much lacked copy protection.
This will never be possible, none of the big players would ever dare to take on Sony. PS2 emulation on next-gen competitor systems will NOT happen unless it's done by some hobbyist basement programmer(s), and even then they might attract the wrath of Sony's bloodthirsty packhunting lawyers.
*G*
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