Official Nintendo's Next Game Platform Thread

[Almasy]

Are mini Blu Ray discs out of the question?

 

[zidane1strife]

And while you might not need 64-bit TODAY, what about TOMORROW or 2+ YEARS off in the future? Cell is 64-bit, isn't it? If M$ goes with Hammer, that will be 64-bit. Even if M$ goes with a P4 and Cell is 32-bit only that means Ninty gets bragging rights as the only 64-bit CPU system in town. Besides, surely there are tasks where 64-bit processing can help. And PPC940 still uses fewer trannies for 64-bit computing, 96 general purpose registers and 512k cache than P4 does for 32-bit, 24 not so general purpose regs and 512k cache... This looks like a hottt chip to me.

I think it's 128bit, isn't it?

 

[megadrive0088]

What CPU will Nintendo use in their upcoming console?

well the reports a few months ago about NEC working with Nintendo on the console had some rumors that preceeded it. there are rumors (only rumors mind you) that NEC is working on a new CPU with 28 cores - supposedly, this chip will reach 2 TFLOPs.
if true, sounds like this is Nintendo's answer to the version of CELL going into PS3. then again, it could be alot of hot air, like many rumors. but perhaps there is a grain of truth in it. Its been clearly pointed out in this thread that there are no massively high performance off the shelf CPUs out there or on the horizion that would be suitable for a next gen Nintendo console to match or beat PS3's CPU.

that leads me to think Nintendo is working with various partners on a custom CPU.

some have also suggested that Fujitsu, makers of the 32-bit FM Towns gaming computer/workstation of 1989 and the world's first 32-bit console, the FM Towns Marty of 1991, might be a CPU partner for Nintendo's next console.

Perhaps NEC and Fujitsu are working on some monster, multi-Teraflop CPU, not unlike IBM-Sony-Toshiba working on CELL. I wouldn't put it past the realm of possibility. I know some people don't care for rumors, but most consoles are pure rumor until they are officially unvieled.

Actually though, the existance of another Nintendo console is NOT rumor, but officially confirmed fact by Ninty themselves.

 

[a4164]

Why are you even LOOKING at embedded CPUs? None of them are suitable to drive even THIS generation of devices, much less the upcoming. ARM? Jesus christ you gotta be kidding me here! SuperH? Don't think they're up to it. MIPS R16k looks kinda decent MAYBE but its performance is still low. Since it draws only like 12W, maybe if Nintendo stuck four of em in the box they'd get a high performance system, but that would be too many chips... I consider MIPS about as attractive as Moto these days.

Just feeling out all the options. It does help to see which definitely can't make it in. ARM, naturally poor performance for a console, but almost every manufacturer has a license with them; ARM is something for handhelds only I guess. MIPS, multiple core MIPS based...hmmm indeed. SH-5 is out, and Hitachi does have a roadmap for 6-8. They just teamed up with STMicro and Mitsubishi to expand SuperH. You never know, Nintendo could come a knocking with specs in hand for what they want performance wise. Nintendo has worked with some of the top fabs in the world; NEC, Matsushita, Mitsubishi, etc. They've had contracts with Philips and Samsung. Its fun to speculate. Nintendo is a little different than say MS with Xbox2. With MS at least you know there is a strong chance of Intel being the only choice. But seriously, Nintendo's CPU, what the hell could it be. And what road will Nintendo be going down. Brute Force, cheap as dirt, or somewhere in between.

Yes, I do believe NEC and ATI had jumped the gun announcing they had contracts for CPU and VPU respectively before Nintendo would have liked. Too tired to look for links, but I'm sure you Ninty fans remember.

 

[PC-Engine]

NEC built a fab dedicated to manufacturing the Flipper chips using embedded ram that IIRC cost $0.8 billion on the premise that Nintendo buys a certain number of chips from them in the long run so they can make a profit by subsidizing the cost of the fab. If Nintendo promises to buy a certain number of cpus then I think NEC may come up with a custom multicore solution. They already have a proof of concept 128 SIMD unit parallel processor graphics chip prototype using only 0.18u and drawing very low power and also running at a very low clock speed. They are already achieving very high performance from this chip using high level software. Having working hardware AND software right now means they won't have much difficulty scaling this design and using it for a semi-general purpose CPU in 2005. My guess is that the cpu will have a lot of SIMD units and will run at maybe 1 - 2 GHz.

 

[megadrive0088]

here is the rumor I was referring to. Actually its not even a proper rumor, it could be absolutely nothing -maybe just a total fabrication by some fanboy. but i did forget to mention Cray.

if the rumor of project Arjuna is correct.
Cray supercompuetrs and NEC
developing a chip that has a performance
of 2 teraflops per second.

This chip will have a whopping 28 main cores!

yet this is the only shred of a possible rumor (i wouldn't even say its a legit rumor) that even suggests Nintendo is going for a custom, multi core CPU to take on PS3.

 

[PC-Engine]

Well if NEC/Cray uses that chip in their future supercomputer offerings and if Nintendo buys a cheaper variant of the chip then they can all benefit from economies of scale. BTW NEC is always doing R&D on faster chips for their SX series SCs. I expect them to go the lower clock route with more IPC to keep heat and costs down.

 

[a4164]

Of course...how could I forget about Cray [/me smacks head]. I too have seen that rumor that links NEC-Cray-Fujitsu to stand up to the Toshiba-Sony-IBM alliance. That would be something to see.

So those old Bloomberg links just seem to indicate that NEC will be fabbing chips for Nintendo but doesn't state clearly that they have the CPU contract, it just mentions "supplying chips". ATI did have the press release saying they are in a "Technology Development Agreement" with Nintendo. So I'm guessing so far its ATI designed VPU fabbed by NEC again.

http://mirror.ati.com/companyinfo/press/2003/4611.html

 

[Saem]

Didn't NEC recently show off a bunch of cores in a ring configuration which had some pretty bad ass performance?

 

[Deepak]

if the rumor of project Arjuna is correct.
Cray supercompuetrs and NEC
developing a chip that has a performance
of 2 teraflops per second.

This chip will have a whopping 28 main cores!

Arjuna was an ancient (5000 BC or even before) Indian Mythological Warrior.... 8)

 

[chaphack]

I think Nintendo might have a chance to UPSET!!! the big boys, IF they play the right cards with developers.

Make a damn develper friendly system, suck up to 3rd parties, have it fully offline and online enabled, sell it cheap, market it aggressively, not just the kiddy and pray for the best.

I dont think game developers care about home in box capabilities, you know, just make the friggin games. The easiest system to work with gets a huge advantage. Hell, I dont even think normal gamers care about extra whiz bang non-gaming features.

 

[Deepak]

Chap why you always put that (embarrased) sign...

btw I dont see N making any surprises (hardware)...they are never known to be adventerous, I dont think they are are looking for no1 spot...they just want to be profitable....

anyhow next gen console will be so powerfull that graphics will not matter anymore....

 

[PC-Engine]

Easy development = cheaper development

 

[chaphack]

anyhow next gen console will be so powerfull that graphics will not matter anymore....

I think graphics will still matter, very much so.

I dont think we will get FFTSW next gen(maybe as a techdemo), well im going for FFX FMV quality realtime, maybe with less FSAA and texture precision. You have to know that some games just render more than others. Do GTA/Morrowind scale of world graphics and the individual quality drop. While you can push the graphics bar on a small scene with limited stuffs, and it will looks nicer.

So GTA4 looking like FFTSW or even FFX FMV is a no no yet IMo.

 

[Deepak]

I think graphics will still matter, very much so.
I dont think we will get FFTSW next gen(maybe as a techdemo), well im going for FFX FMV quality realtime, maybe with less FSAA and texture precision. You have to know that some games just render more than others. Do GTA/Morrowind scale of world graphics and the individual quality drop. While you can push the graphics bar on a small scene with limited stuffs, and it will looks nicer.

So GTA4 looking like FFTSW or even FFX FMV is a no no yet IMo.

What I meant to say is that all next gen consoles are going to be so powerfull that even worst programming will produce great graphics/effexts and hopefully you will not be bashed here on B3D.. ...btw in next gen focus will be more on AI/animation....

as far as FFTSW is concerned, you never know...we may see FFTSW quality graphics...lets wait for specs!!!!!....but FFX FMV will definitely be possible in next gen...

 

[megadrive0088]

FFX quality graphics, yes

FF:TSW quality graphics, no

 

[megadrive0088]

"Of course...how could I forget about Cray [/me smacks head]. I too have seen that rumor that links NEC-Cray-Fujitsu to stand up to the Toshiba-Sony-IBM alliance. That would be something to see."

Yeah that would be something to behold. mega alliance vs mega alliance


"So those old Bloomberg links just seem to indicate that NEC will be fabbing chips for Nintendo but doesn't state clearly that they have the CPU contract, it just mentions "supplying chips". ATI did have the press release saying they are in a "Technology Development Agreement" with Nintendo. So I'm guessing so far its ATI designed VPU fabbed by NEC again."

Actually that is what I believe is most likely the case here. ATI designing a VPU fabbed by NEC. for it to be NEC helping with the design of a CPU, one would need more information to draw that conclusion.

 

[jvd]

who knows with the way ati is going at it nintendo may end up with the best system out of them all . It be nice to see nintendo wind up with hte best hardware in this outing .

 

[megadrive0088]

FF: TSW graphics wouldn't be possible until at least the PS4/XBox3/GC3
generation around 2010-2011, imho.

we still haven't reached Toy Story 1 graphics on the latest generation of PC VPUs (R350, NV30 and upcoming NV35 demo) - the upcoming generation of consoles will surly suppass the current best PC graphics, significantly even, but not by leaps & bounds.

FF:TSW graphics is far, far too ambitious for 2005-2006 consoles
I think anything done as prerendered game cut scenes is fair game though.

 

[DeanoC]

DeanoC:

Surely you have heard of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act? It says, if you try to circumvent any kind of copy(right) protection scheme you not only go to jail forever, you have to pay ten bajillion dollars in fines too.

Doesn't matter if a company tries to emulate PS2 in a country outside the US, you could never sell that console in the US anyway and that means you can't afford to develop that tech to begin with. Besides, Sony would sue anyway; M$ is an american company and Nintendo has a US branch.

I was joking, I know what the DMCA is. The only thing the DMCA changes is in respect of circumvention of copy protection, as long as the reverse-engineered machine didn't play pirate copies it would be legal.
Its totally legal under US and EU law to make a compatible machine as long as you are careful to 'clean' code any ROM and that all copy-protection still works. The DMCA is bizarre in that it factors in 'intent' with regard reverse-engineering, if the intent is to break copy-protection its illegal whereas if its for 'fair' competition its legal.

And while you might not need 64-bit TODAY, what about TOMORROW or 2+ YEARS off in the future? Cell is 64-bit, isn't it? If M$ goes with Hammer, that will be 64-bit. Even if M$ goes with a P4 and Cell is 32-bit only that means Ninty gets bragging rights as the only 64-bit CPU system in town. Besides, surely there are tasks where 64-bit processing can help. And PPC940 still uses fewer trannies for 64-bit computing, 96 general purpose registers and 512k cache than P4 does for 32-bit, 24 not so general purpose regs and 512k cache... This looks like a hottt chip to me.

What good is a 64 bit CPU? The PS2 CPU is 64 bit, and its makes no difference. The only real use of 64bit integer register's is for large address ranges, as the chance of Nintendo shipping with over 4Gb of memory is remote why bother?