Official Microsoft Japan Summit 2005

[ShootMyMonkey]

There is no seperation between Kernel and user space on Xbox, and you're answers aren't convincing me you have much more than a passing experience with Xbox.

I said otherwise... when? I'm going on a combination of my own experience and what other people have said. I never said it's entirely my own work that showed what I said.

I find it extremely difficult to believe that no one could come up with a thinner implementation than Microsoft's were they given full hardware documentation to the end effect of being able to bypass DirectX and use one's own API. In fact, I find it difficult to believe that a significant percentage would fail at such an endeavor.

 

[DotProduct]

ShootMyMonkey:

Please... Do not try to pretend to have ever developed for the XBox.

The only thing DirectX PC and DirectX Box is the API. There is no "driver support" or anything like that on the XBox. Everything is linked against your libs or even inline. And there is some cool stuff you can do on the Box you could never do with DirectX PC.

API wise I prefer OpenGL, but that is propably a matter of taste.

 

[ShootMyMonkey]

Believe what you want... I know one thing with absolute certainty, though. The last good OS Microsoft developed was DOS. And they didn't even really make the best DOS either.

I can be more than 100% certain that life would be better if Win32 never happened.

 

[ERP]

There is no seperation between Kernel and user space on Xbox, and you're answers aren't convincing me you have much more than a passing experience with Xbox.

I said otherwise... when? I'm going on a combination of my own experience and what other people have said. I never said it's entirely my own work that showed what I said.

I find it extremely difficult to believe that no one could come up with a thinner implementation than Microsoft's were they given full hardware documentation to the end effect of being able to bypass DirectX and use one's own API. In fact, I find it difficult to believe that a significant percentage would fail at such an endeavor.

You should sit with a disassembler and look at what the functions actually do, there is by enlarge a one to one correspondance between the API calls and the hardware functionality. It's one of the reasons MS added support for GL style immediate mode primitives to the XBox API. The hardware supports them natively.

Sure someone could rename the functions, but that wouldn't be any thinner. I don't see what is bad about DirectX (as an API) The functions largely let you set state, that translate to a move of a command into the pushbuffer (except when multiple states are shared in a single register), and DrawIndexedXXX which just does a raw copy of the indices into the pushbuffer. I mean they even let you ignore the pixel shaders and just jam values into the combiners if you want.

The one real exception to this is the handling of vertex streams, where the API doesn't really reflect what's happening, it isn't particularly inefficient though.

 

[Gollum]

They didn't even devlop DOS, they just bought it from a ppor chao who had no clue he was sitting on a gold mine. Ermmm ... how did this turn into an OS discussion?

 

[ShootMyMonkey]

Ermmm ... how did this turn into an OS discussion?

One of the nice things about the anonymity of the net is that you can afford to vent certain things through what would otherwise be an alterego. I'm one of those people who likes to keep about 5 or 6 different personalities. You're listening to the "opinionated elitist bastard" alterego, in case it wasn't clear. Long-standing gripes bubble over, and the broader Win32 hate came out. That's all there was to it.

 

[ultimate_end]

I'm one of those people who likes to keep about 5 or 6 different personalities.

I'm starting to wonder whether anyone should even be taking you seriously at all...
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Anyway, wasn't this thread about the Xbox summit? So yeah, I think Microsoft did a pretty good job with this. Considering the circumstances anyway.

Maybe we could come up with lists of Summit games that we are anticipating most.

Thjese are the games that I most looking forward to:

Enchant Arm
World Airforce
FEoE remake
N3
possibly RR6, whatever Idea factory is cooking up and maybe the new Namco RPG, if it turns out interesting.

I'm assuming that Taito's World Airforce is a continuation of their Energy Airforce series on PS2. I really love those games. It's about the only real flight sim for consoles (if you forget those 6poly/s genesis ones).

Ofcourse I've mainly been buzzing about the Mistwalker games, which weren't represented at the summit. But after this, the 360 lineup is starting to sound really sweet!

 

[PC-Engine]

I think it's pretty cool that Taito is supporting Xbox with a nice quality game. Seems like all the old school Japanese companies like Taito and Hudson and SNK are onboard. I wonder what happen to companies like Data East/Data West. I want a new fully 3D Robocop game damit!!

 

[ultimate_end]

Yeah, I had wondered what happened to them, they basically disappeared completely. Data East made some good arcade games. It's a shame these companies go out of business sometimes.

Just like it's a shame old franchises die out. I really want someone to make a nextgen Wonderboy in Monsterland remake, dammit! I never played the Genesis ones, but I think the series sort of lost it's way at that point. Then died completely.

 

[DigitalSoul]

Heh, Data East went belly up a few years ago.....Plus Titus has already given Robocop a bad name.