NVIDIA shows signs ... [2008 - 2017]

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I don't see the conflict...

Hence, the myopia comment ;)

Through ~4k units I can account for ~100 WLAN card replacements. I was off by a factor of two or so in my previous estimation. What were you saying?

What estimation? I'm not particularly concerned with your experiences as an HP tech. I was just pointing out a situation where the party that takes the heat isn't necessarily the source of the problem.

Charlie's article is brutal though....truth be damned. He sure knows how to hold a grudge. Gotta give him that at least.
 
Okay, either Charlie or I (and maybe it's me) has a serious misunderstanding of what a substrate is as it relates to gpus. My understanding is it's added after the chip leaves TSMC. Further, that the viddy IHVs multi-source substrate procurements/mounting with the chip in that post-TSMC stage and there has been a history of shortages in the past.

Yeah if it is indeed an issue with inadequate cooling causing the soldering to fail on the PCB substrate then it could be any one of a number of suppliers Nvidia uses in that area....including TSMC based on some news reports.
 
BTW I read charlies piece and it is complete crap, but that isn't unusual. His argument is desktop GPUs stay hot all the time as people leave their computers on instead of going hot-cold-hot like in laptops that have better throttling and are turned off more often.
I'm not sure that's the exact argument though I didn't play close attention to the wording. Laptops will tend to run hotter than desktops so it's not just that the desktop GPUs are hot all the time. Unless they're under heavy use heat isn't likely to be a problem.

So the argument is it's a combination of laptops being hotter when in use and being cycled more often.
 
Sigh. There may be multiple "substrates" in the finished product that gets shipped to the OEMs. Maybe that's the confusion here.
These days, chip EE's talking about substrates are 95% of the time talking about the small PCB on which the die is soldered. It can have a few to a lot of routing layers. They're custom designed for each chip.

Wafers also have a substrate layer, but I've never heard of anything there related to reliability.
 
These days, chip EE's talking about substrates are 95% of the time talking about the small PCB on which the die is soldered. It can have a few to a lot of routing layers. They're custom designed for each chip.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one that thinks so.
 
Hence, the myopia comment ;)



What estimation? I'm not particularly concerned with your experiences as an HP tech. I was just pointing out a situation where the party that takes the heat isn't necessarily the source of the problem.

Charlie's article is brutal though....truth be damned. He sure knows how to hold a grudge. Gotta give him that at least.

I see.

Very well then, young Jedi, as you wish.

Now, witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational computer station!

:devilish:
 
Charlie may not be wrong about other OEM's having problems. I bought a ASUS laptop for my daughter last fall with the 8400 GPU installed.

In the first 2 months... the laptop failed and the 8400 was replaced in both cases. In one of the repair descriptions it was clear that the 8400 was the problem. In the first 2 months of owning the laptop, it spent more time on the ASUS bench being fixed and tested. The triggering was a USB plug or unplug....and bang BLACK screen.

They tested the laptop for almost 1 week for the current GPU replacement and for the last 6 months (cross fingers) it has been fine. This discussion of nVidia GPU problems reminded me of the hassles I had last fall. I will never ever buy a nVidia GPU on a laptop is I can avoid it.

Dealing with a desperate and crying daughter at University when all her work was lost and no laptop after we spent a lot on that laptop is not a experience I want to have again. Also we spent maybe 10 hours driving to deliver my work laptop to her to cover the outages. Reviewing the repair records makes it clear where the blame is.
 
Every manufacturer has put out a bum product now and again, how they deal with it and how they improve their product is generally how I judge them.

If I refused to buy any brand of kit that has ever given me difficulty I would be back on my old VIC-20, and even that's given me grief. ;)
 
Members will please recall these forums are for talking about the issues of the day, not each other. . . .
 
Yes every manufacturer has put out a bum product and we consumers really have a very minor way of getting back, which is skipping their products for a bit until our memories lessen the problem. HP and other OEM's know this and unfortunately most consumers may say its HP's fault or whomever the ISV is because their name is on it.

I will be buying another laptop in 6 months and its natural that I would avoid nVidia's product. We all know that some fixes take a total product revamp and that is not short term. Maybe next year nVidia generation will have a much more solid product but current laptop GPU would be derived from the same basis as their current problems.

It's like AMD with AA/AF on the 2900, the 3800's helped but took a newer line like the 4800 to truly fix the problem.

Regardless, my point was the problem is not just with HP's laptops but also was in another's laptop's ASUS which I had personal experience with.
 
Well, getting entangled with Rambus is certainly not what they needed right now. Of course, this makes me wonder if Rambus is in submarine mode hassling other firms as well.

...For more than six years, we have diligently attempted to negotiate a licensing agreement with NVIDIA, but our good faith efforts have been to no avail...

Wonder who else the 'good faith efforts' are ongoing with...
 
In truth it may be to Rambus' advantage if it does, as any active acknowledgment of Rambus IP considerations in AMD ATI-related literature may increase the validity of the suit in the courts' eyes, as there would be precedent in the marketplace.
 
From Hexus:
Sauces close to a gypsy convoy in Kazakhstan have indicated that at least one Dell sales service team in Eastern Europe is confirming further details of the “weak die/packaging material” inconvenience that’s apparently afflicting masses of computers with NVIDIA graphics and chipsets.
and
Other HEXUS sauces have confirmed that NVIDIA is set to make an expanded official statement in the coming hours.
 
Other HEXUS sauces have confirmed that NVIDIA is set to make an expanded official statement in the coming hours.

So how is that going to go?

Do they reassure consumers about the rest of your product line by pointing out that only certain parts are affected? But in naming them potentially piss off the OEMs leaving them with a pile of stock as consumers look for alternatives?

Perhaps they are just going to officially spread the blame around. :LOL:

Mostly I expect they want to reassure stock holders to slow the fall, but I'm not quite sure how they would go about it without causing other issues.
 
Well, I can say this issue has me worried enough to not buy a laptop right now with a Nvidia chip in it. If it's as wide spread as it seems its going to be very very bad for Nvidia. These chips are in tons of the best price/performance laptops out there in the sub $1,000 market.
 
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