Lol as long as they don't increase those prices later, then they're ok?
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xx70 product? There has been one NVIDIA generation where xx80 didn't use x04 chip
DegustatoR
Legend
How many Nvidia generations were there with a x03 chip?
This is the most realistic guess I’ve seen so far. There’s a chance the 12GB 4080 comes in at $699.
Btw all of the talk about which die is used for which card is completely irrelevant. People aren’t buying dies, they’re buying whole graphics cards. If the 12GB 4080 beats up on the 10GB 3080 it will sell just fine.
Yikes 1k for a 4080 ? That be pretty insane I might end up just staying on a 3080 or checking out rdna 3.
DegustatoR
Legend
You have an option of getting this previous gen for cheap at the moment though.
I think it matters because people want to buy a specific performance position in the stack. In my example, I had decided to go for an x080 level GPU because I wanted basically the top end GPU without spending stupid Titan prices. What you're actually getting with that 4080 12GB is more in line with a 2060s from the Turing generation and below a 3070 from the Ampere generation in comparison to the top GPU in the stack. There's even "another" 4080 that should be much faster. This is quite clearly at best a 4070 and tbh I think it's pretty underhanded to sell it off as an x080 tier product just to command a higher price if that is indeed what's happening. There's simply no way I'm paying £700-£800 for a x070 class product when the MSRP of the 3070 just 2 years ago was only £469. I get that you could very rarely get it for that price and the market (and currency values) have changed now but that's just price gouging IMO.
neckthrough
Regular
But beyond the relative order between those positions (xx80 > xx70), the actual relative performance between those positions has been somewhat inconsistent across generations anyway.
We're going to be seeing major refactoring of lineups anyway thanks to skyrocketing manufacturing costs, increasing BOM costs and of course inflation.
Only reasonable way to approach is just look at price, power and in-game performance of products available in the market. Looking back wistfully at historical trends is bound to lead to disappointment.
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Product positioning is also important. I don't think you can sell a 4080 for $1000 when it was $700 the generation before. NVIDIA could do that with the 2080 Ti because it's the best of the best so who cares? It would further complicate matters to have two 80 models at completely different price points and tiers of performance like the leaks are suggesting. Either NVIDIA has gone full stupid or the information is inaccurate.
That's sound in theory but in practice they're just going to end up pricing people out of PC gaming altogether. I don't see that many people willing to pay £500-£700 for mid range GPU's, those are enthusiast level prices and enthusiasts want enthusiast level products. Hopefully AMD and even Intel will keep prices sane on their side at least. It's also worth noting that while console prices have gone up, it's not by nearly this magnitude, so the value proposition of PC gaming is plummeting (for the given point in the generation) vs that market, and consoles should be impacted by all the increased cost points you note above as well.
This is madness. How is this 'most realistic', exactly? These prices are absolute insanity.
People are not gonna be happy about a 12GB 4080 at $700-800 that only beats the $700 10GB 3080 from two years prior by like 10-20% or something. We've already seen this with Turing. If they dont offer a notable leap in value, gamers will sit on their hands. It's not like Nvidia aren't aware of this. When Geforce Ampere products were announced, Nvidia even said like, "It's now safe for Pascal owners to upgrade", knowing full well that Turing didn't offer the kind of value improvement people want in a new generation, leading to its relatively poor sales.
This will also ruin the entire rest of the stack.
Nvidia needs a shot in the arm in terms of financials by actually selling GPU's and this isn't gonna be how to do it.
DegustatoR
Legend
Should beat 3090Ti in fact which is about 30% faster than 3080?
neckthrough
Regular
I mean, you're just describing the vanilla pricing problem. I would hope the Big 3 have product planners who understand their demand tiers, and are trying to come up with an optimal product/price portfolio given their cost constraints. It's possible that there is no solution, i.e., no price structure that achieves their GM targets because costs have become so prohibitive. In that case they will just exit the consumer GPU business, or possibly wither away and die.
I hope they are not there yet. But what I'm really trying to convey here is how seriously f'd manufacturing costs are. Moore's Law was always about *cost*. 2x the transistors for the same $ every new gen. In other words, 1 transistor would cost 1/2 as much in the next gen. *That's* how we got all that wonderful generational scaling.
Now? 1 transistor costs *more* in the next gen. Let the consequences of that sink in and you'll understand why I'm urging people to forget about the good old days.
I hear what you’re saying but “performance position” isn’t a feature. That’s really just feeding the ego and the feeling of having the best. Granted that is an important part of the customer experience.
What makes you think the 4080 12GB won’t leave the 3080 in the dust? That’s all that matters right.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
I haven't been priced out of PC gaming (best games are indie games), but I have been priced mostly out of the GPU market. Up until the 1070, I'd been upgrading graphics cards every generation. This is the first time I've continued to use a GPU as long as I have due to a combination of insane GPU pricing combined with lack of features I find compelling enough to justify those insane GPU prices.
Regards,
SB
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Ti Founders Edition Review
The GeForce RTX 3090 Ti Founders Edition is NVIDIA's mightiest card from the Ampere lineup. We previously looked at various custom designs. Today, we're checking out the Founders Edition to test how well it does in terms of heat and noise, and whether it's an alternative to the even more...
No, more like 16-23%. And that's with the 3090Ti already being pushed much harder in terms of power limits and whatnot as well, it's not just the raw spec difference which really isn't that big.
There's probably a bigger difference between the 12GB 4080 and 16GB 4080 than there is between the 3080 and 3090Ti...
Depends on what you mean by 'in the dust'.
And no, it isn't all that matters. We're supposed to get significant improvements in performance per dollar each generation. Not a creeping 10-20% more, but like 40%+ per pricing tier.
I dont know why y'all would be ok with this.
neckthrough
Regular
It's disappointing to see such entitlement in a technical forum.
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