NV got DS2 contract according to BSN

Discussion in 'Mobile Industry' started by TEXAN*, Oct 13, 2009.

  1. tongue_of_colicab

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    Actually how is that a good thing? The fact that nintendo manages to sell a machine which won't cost them much to build at such a relative high price is something which, from a company POV, you can only be proud of. Wouldnt MS and Sony have loved to make money on each console they sold from day one instead of spending billions on subsidizing hardware hoping to make up for it by selling software?
     
  2. MfA

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    As I said, for whatever reason ... it happens. See most any review of Metroid Prime Hunters.
     
  3. darkblu

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    Ok, i totally neglected the RAM, as I was focused on the pipeline design, but you have a point there - RAM architure was largely re-designed to provide the GPU with access to a new pool of RAM (the former A-RAM, currently GDDR3). As for the clocks - everything was scaled up proportinally, so that does not really shift ballances in the pipeline. Actually, from that same 'everything-was-scaled-up' POV, the new bank of RAM is a step backward from the original design, as the new RAM is of disproportionate high access latencies, and thus is mainly suitable for GPU access (i.e. the CPU did not get to see a bump in its usable memory pool).

    IMO, for an SD console the wii is a pretty well rounded machine, at least in what it does (apparently the things it does not do are outside the scope of this argument).
     
  4. Exophase

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    Did you read the rest of my post? I don't doubt that stuff stays still on the screen while something else prevents the geometry from changing but it's not the same phenomenon.
     
  5. Panajev2001a

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    It did, the quite big GDDR3 pool, if you can shift more and more GPU bound data into it leaves with more breathing room for the latency sensitive CPU in its low latency RAM pool (1-T SRAM). Still, out of the three last-generation consoles, Gekko was the CPU with the best Cache hierarchy of them... about 2x the L2 cache compared to XCPU (512 KB vs 256 KB) so even if it deals with a far higher latency, it should still work quite well with it compared to another CPU with far less L2 cache.

    I'll agree with you that it is a quite nicely balanced design over-all, but the biggest flaw was not fixed IMHO... Hollywood should have received some more e-DRAM for its embedded frame-buffer... 16 bits rendering and/or many games shipping with AA turned off is not nice for SD TV's either.
     
  6. darkblu

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    True, the new memory setup should alleviate the situation with CPU-usable RAM availability, statistically. But it does not help with extreme cases - if a CPU code utilized close to (the client-available portion of) the 24MB on the cube, it would not get any headroom on the wii.

    I agree. Not promoting AA to 'use freely' levels on the wii was a mistake.
     
  7. JohnH

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    Doing a spatial sort that makes any sense is going to require multiple additional passes through your database, it is going to be slower, this may be fine on the desktop but in the embedded space the CPU's are still lacking the grunt to waist on this sort of thing.
    Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point here but this reads like it re-inforces my arguement...
    I think it depends on your target market, in the embedded space IMR's (of any worth) are pretty much non existent and the dominant architecture is a fully deferred tiler ;)
    Hey, we're agreeing here! LOL ;) I think feedback buffers only address the issue of shader clocks burnt on skinning etc, you're still left with a pretty big BW cost on resubmission, and the Z buffer read BW cost is huge. Funnily enough we do quite like content that has been "optimised"in this manner, although obviously we'd prefer it if engines skipped the multiple geometry passes where possible when building their g-buffers! G-buffer read bandwidth itself can also be all but eliminated on a tiler, but that's a different story :)

    Cheers,
    John.
     
  8. Megadrive1988

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    I'd like to know more about the Mali architecture.

    Although I'm hoping for something based on Flipper/Hollywood to be in 3DS.
     
  9. Ailuros

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    Early-Z tiler. I wouldn't hope for anything "programmable" in 3DS, which excludes a LOT of currently available GPU IP.

    Well I don't think it's AMD IP either, but non programmable and utterly boring is getting closer to the final result most likely. IMO far too many are expecting from the 3DS a "next generation" handheld; how about something more like a refresh in a fancier package?
     
  10. rpg.314

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    A non programmable GPU in 2010. DEATH TO NINTENDO. :lol:
     
  11. Exophase

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    That's what I expect, but at the start of the thread you insisted that Nintendo had Tegra IP forthcoming.
     
  12. Ailuros

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    That was the rumor for a very long time for the past few years and I'm as certain as I can be that there were at least negotiations between Nintendo and NVIDIA. When exactly got the picture clearer and it started to show that the 3DS isn't a true next generation handheld?
     
  13. Exophase

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    Guess that shows that rumors shouldn't be insisted upon, although naturally it hasn't been disproven yet. Negotiations sound pretty interesting, maybe there'll be something further down the line. Do you know for sure that these were about Tegra and not something possibly more general? Like nVidia graphics in Nintendo's next console. Although it would be pretty funny if Wii's successor used a Tegra I'm not going to make such a comment like that.

    Sorry, could you please rephrase this? I'm getting a massive parse error on this sentence :(
     
  14. Ailuros

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    Else the 3DS is a more a "refresh" than a next generation console.
     
  15. darkblu

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    I don't think the picture has gotten any clearer ; )
     
  16. V3

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    3DS is next gen from Nintendo perspective at least, because it'll be BC to NDS. 3D alone would need them to beef up their hardware, but they know they'll be competing with the likes of Apple and MS. And also PSP2 which probably coming soon. And Sony has taken a huge chunk of Nintendo domination in handheld, where others typically failed to make any dent.

    I also hope Nintendo get the message from NDS LL sales, there is a market for bigger handheld.
     
  17. Ailuros

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    No doubt it is for Nintendo and it will be marketed as such. Despite the long-winded pro and contra arguments for hand-held consoles I'd say that most of us could agree that Nintendo's success with any sort of consoles doesn't rely on each devices hw capabilities.


    Depends how and where you beef up which hw. At this point I'm fairly sure that it doesn't contain anything Tegra, but Tegra mentioned the Tegra2 GPU sounds more like a die shrunk Tegra1 GPU at twice the frequency than anything else (and yes I wouldn't doubt for some minor "cosmetic" changes, but nothing that would break that description). Yes that's just one irrelevant example but frequency is one way to "beef up" hw and no I don't know what the 3DS really will contain.

    I don't doubt that the 3DS will do more than fine in terms of sales, I just don't think it'll rely on as advanced hw as the PSP2 will and no I don't personally see a problem in that either.
     
  18. DeadlyNinja

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    This came from IGN.

    http://ds.ign.com/articles/109/1094930p1.html
     
  19. sfried

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    Also at digitalfoundry:
    My guess is Broadcom. Considering they have been suppliers for Nintendo's wifi adapters, seems like a no brainer.
     
  20. DeadlyNinja

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    I think IGN is just making up crap really, but the not Tegra 2 thing is interesting.

    Here's a link someone on Neogaf found based on what they said.

    http://www.dmprof.com/release/leaflet_SMAPH-S_en.pdf

    This is by a Japanese company and seems pretty good for a handheld.
     
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