NextGen Audio: Tempest Engine, Project Acoustics, Windows Sonic, Dolby Atmos, DTS X

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Deleted member 13524

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WELL WELL WELL!!!!

To my utterly immense surprise, my now-ancient TV (Sony ZD9 from 2016/2017 I think?) got a software update and it now supports Dolby Atmos on apps such as Netflix, and my AVR is accepting it through eARC.

I can now only hope and wait for Sony to do the same for PS5. One day. Maybe not in 4 years.

Dude, a software update past the warranty period?

You do know you just lost the once-in-a-year opportunity to smack the back of the TV with a hammer and blame it on the software update, so you'd unfortunately be forced to purchase a new OLED TV?
 

DSoup

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Dude, a software update past the warranty period?

Sony are pretty good on software updates for TVs. My old 2012 X-Series Bravia which I gifted to my aunt and uncle still gets OTA (Over The Air) software updates. That is software updates over terrestrial wavelengths just like terrestrial digital programming - you don't need need to connect it to the internet.
 
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Deleted member 13524

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Sony are pretty good on software updates for TVs. My old 2012 X-Series Bravia which I gifted to my aunt and uncle still gets OTA (Over The Air) software updates. That is software updates over terrestrial wavelengths just like terrestrial digital programming - you don't need need to connect it to the internet.

I haven't heard great things about the stability of Sony's SmartTVs, or rather any Android TVs in general my friends claim their Android TVs crash on a semi-regular basis.
That OTA through TDT functionality is pretty awesome, though!
 

London Geezer

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I haven't heard great things about the stability of Sony's SmartTVs, or rather any Android TVs in general my friends claim their Android TVs crash on a semi-regular basis.
That OTA through TDT functionality is pretty awesome, though!
I must say, my ZD9 was a slow, sluggish mess for quite a long time before they patched Android TV to a state where it's less slow and sluggish, but still a bit of a mess. Since this last update which gave me Atmos, the TV has crashed a couple of times, which never happened before. So yeah, not ideal. But such an old TV that got a Dolby Vision update some time ago, and now Atmos? Can't complain really.
 

Allandor

Regular
I haven't heard great things about the stability of Sony's SmartTVs, or rather any Android TVs in general my friends claim their Android TVs crash on a semi-regular basis.
That OTA through TDT functionality is pretty awesome, though!
The crashes are still present. Not that often (since the last firmware update on my xh900 tv) but still, I really miss my old webos based LG TV because of some features (like switching on and off a soundbar via S/PDIF) and stability. TV just works well with newer external sony devices which is a bit of a bummer.

Question on the topic:
if you use headphones, that directly get their signal from the console, does this affect the input lag on the TV as the TV does no longer need to process the audio signal?
 

London Geezer

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The crashes are still present. Not that often (since the last firmware update on my xh900 tv) but still, I really miss my old webos based LG TV because of some features (like switching on and off a soundbar via S/PDIF) and stability. TV just works well with newer external sony devices which is a bit of a bummer.

Question on the topic:
if you use headphones, that directly get their signal from the console, does this affect the input lag on the TV as the TV does no longer need to process the audio signal?

I don’t think you’d see benefits from doing that, but it’s an interesting question for sure!

I’ve been wondering whether running my content through my AVR adds some latency, but I’m definitely not sensitive to that - one day I realised that I’d been playing games with the TV Set to Cinema (which on my set increases input lag from about 30 to 100ms) and I had no idea before seeing that. It must have been a couple of weeks and I had not even noticed a difference.
 
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menmau

Newcomer
I don’t think you’d see benefits from doing that, but it’s an interesting question for sure!

I’ve been wondering whether running my content through my AVR adds some latency, but I’m definitely not sensitive to that - one day I realised that I’d been playing games with the TV Set to Cinema (which on my set increases input lag from about 30 to 100ms) and I had no idea before seeing that. It must have been a couple of weeks and I had not even noticed a difference.

I also have the same question, I always run it without processing, which is always in direct mode (Yamaha).
Since I do not have professional gear to test it, eventhough I tried to measure it but still could not see any difference, either connected directly to TV or if run through AVR in direct mode.
 

snarfbot

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I just tried the dts x thing in windows and its pretty much the best one. It simulates a larger sound stage with one of the settings and its perfect. The sounds that are supposed to be in front of you actually come from that direction instead of seeming like they're in or on your head. Very good.
 

Cyan

orange
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I just tried the dts x thing in windows and its pretty much the best one. It simulates a larger sound stage with one of the settings and its perfect. The sounds that are supposed to be in front of you actually come from that direction instead of seeming like they're in or on your head. Very good.
purchased it today for 13,99€ on Windows 10 store, the DTSX version, which includes everything. I can't share impressions for now, it's been a few minutes listening to it compared to Dolby Atmos, which I also got on Windows 10 some years ago.

Just tried listening to this song in portuguese for now.

Avelaneiras Frolidash - Laura LaMontagne & PicoAmperio - YouTube
 

invictis

Newcomer
Ok, so I'm not an audiophile, and I think alot of it is overblown, as shown by blind tests.

However, it appears that both Sony and Microsoft have put together quite even, yet different audio solutions for the new consoles.
Bravo to both of them for stepping up the game from.last gen.
Hearing devs who do audio in games rave about them because they can do whatever they want from an audio point of view without having to fight other devs for CPU resources is telling.
Both Sony and Microsoft claim that their audio hardware is the equivalent of the full 8 core Jaguar CPUs found in the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. That's quite the improvement.

So my question is just how much CPU resources on the PS4 and Xbox One were being used for audio?
You used to hear that one core was for audio, but if that was correct they wouldn't really need to fight over resources, as one core was set aside.
If it was one core, or at least a decent amount of one, then the CPUs in the new consoles are going to be massive massive uplifts from last gen.
No audio load, no decompression load, multithreaded cores as opposed to single, large frequency upgrades and massive IPC improvements.
 

jlippo

Veteran
The Xbox versions of CP2077 support the use of ingame Dolby Atmos which really elavates the immersion quit abit if you use headphones.
I would love to see consoles get support for a proper head tracking when using headphones, would be really awesome with high quality object based environments.
Even when mostly watching toward screen, all those small head movements would add bit of immersion..
 

London Geezer

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I would love to see consoles get support for a proper head tracking when using headphones, would be really awesome with high quality object based environments.
Even when mostly watching toward screen, all those small head movements would add bit of immersion..
Do you really move your head that much while playing games? Am I the only one who basically turns himself into the shape of my sofa, without moving a muscle for hours at a time, especially my big head?
 

Jay

Veteran
Ok, so I'm not an audiophile, and I think alot of it is overblown, as shown by blind tests.
Which blind tests were they?
I think that good audio has been overlooked since Aureal 3D disappeared.
So I personally think we've gone backwards until now regarding good spacial 3D, object based audio etc.

So my question is just how much CPU resources on the PS4 and Xbox One were being used for audio?
You used to hear that one core was for audio, but if that was correct they wouldn't really need to fight over resources, as one core was set aside.
XO had the Shape audio block which was relatively powerful, how much of it was available and plugged into middleware I don't know. Some parts may not have been flexible enough or api architecture may not have played well together.

So xbox comparison of what the new audio is capable off needs to take that into consideration as may not be taking shape into account. If that's what your curious about.

I doubt that they set a core aside dedicated to audio, may have the audio set to only be processed on one core, but shared with other work loads. Either way, it would always play second fiddle in terms of overall importance. But audio probably has tighter requirements in terms of when it needs to get proceed than many other tasks like graphics.
 
I would love to see consoles get support for a proper head tracking when using headphones, would be really awesome with high quality object based environments.
Even when mostly watching toward screen, all those small head movements would add bit of immersion..

Head tracking isn't really needed as even with great lateral movements you aren't changing your head much relative to the source of all/most sounds in a game.

That said...

Do you really move your head that much while playing games? Am I the only one who basically turns himself into the shape of my sofa, without moving a muscle for hours at a time, especially my big head?

While tracking the head's location in space isn't going to do much, being able to track the rotation of the head can be huge WRT to immersion when the sources remain pinned to it's virtual location as your rotate your head. There are a few solutions available that do this such as the HyperX Cloud Orbit which features Waves NX tech.

It's pretty incredible when you rotate your head slightly and the source of a sound remains stationary in the virtual space rather than moving with the rotation of your head.

However, they aren't perfect as they don't have absolute positioning so the "center point" can drift over time which alters the positioning of all audio sources.

In game terms, this is likely more impactful for PC gamers which sit closer to the screen and thus are more likely to rotate their head while gaming than console couch players. BUT, it's still incredibly cool if you turn your head to, let's say, look out the window of your house and the audio that you're hearing stays grounded. Thus, no matter where you are looking your audio immersion is never broken.

It's really pretty amazing once you've experienced it. But as mentioned while those headsets can also track lateral movements of the head, due to how distant most sound sources are from the player, it has extremely limited impact on the audio immersion compared to tracking the rotation of the head.

The drift problem can be solved with some kind of absolute positioning transmitter (like say the Oculus tracking stations) or inside out tracking (like the camera's on say Oculus Quest). A simple positioning transmitter would probably be cheaper, however. It doesn't need the fidelity required for VR as the rotational position of the head is far more important than the head's actual position in space.

Regards,
SB
 

invictis

Newcomer
Which blind tests were they?
I think that good audio has been overlooked since Aureal 3D disappeared.
So I personally think we've gone backwards until now regarding good spacial 3D, object based audio etc.


XO had the Shape audio block which was relatively powerful, how much of it was available and plugged into middleware I don't know. Some parts may not have been flexible enough or api architecture may not have played well together.

So xbox comparison of what the new audio is capable off needs to take that into consideration as may not be taking shape into account. If that's what your curious about.

I doubt that they set a core aside dedicated to audio, may have the audio set to only be processed on one core, but shared with other work loads. Either way, it would always play second fiddle in terms of overall importance. But audio probably has tighter requirements in terms of when it needs to get proceed than many other tasks like graphics.

Sorry, the blind tests I was talking about was in relation to wether people can actually tell the difference between ultra high end headphones and speakers worth mega dollars, to good quality speakers and headphones worth nowhere near the amount.
 
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